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Heavy Duty Training?

Has anyone in the forum followed Mike Mentzer traing techniques? DO they work? Is it worth buying a book to read? Can someone give me an example of what a chext or back work out would be like with Heavy duty? I have not read any of Mike Mentzer’s training literature so that why i am asking?

YES it DOES work! now even though I don’t agree w/Mentzer(R.I.P.) on EVERYTHING I do on most things. for a workout it depends on where you are yourself.He (this is the major point that I agree w/him on) believes that you should DECREASE volume as you grow larger and stronger so it depends on how long you have been training, how strong you are, ect… now he believes (I guess I should say believed but w/Mentzer he probably will find a way to log on and say he believes 'cause he’s dead not stupid, anyone who ever spoke w/him will know what I mean) in less volume for beginers, teens, women,ect… than I do but to give you an overview let me TRY to give an example. you start out (after break in period) w/1 exercise per body part 3x’s a week, all post warm up sets taken to failure (he also only believed in VERY limited warm ups, I don’t think you have to do warm ups for say tri’s after you had already done your pec warm up and exercise but I think the shoulder is soooo delicate that you do need several warmups for pecs, back, and delts) you do the whole body each work out, after you stop progressing you either cut back to 2x’s a week or cut exercises out of the program, say one workout would be 1 ex. for pec,delts and back then next workout 1 ex. for legs, bi’s and tri’s then next workout say one ex. for lower back,traps,calfs and abs, ect… when you stop progressing again you cut back again, ect…now to learn exercises, learn to recruite more fibers, 'cause you can recover easier if a newbie,ect… I believe that a newbie, teen, woman, ect. can handle more volume in the begining, say 3 sets of one ex. per body part or 3 exercises for one set each per body part 3x’s a week then follow the same plan from there, cut volume as you reach sticking points. I don’t want to go on for ever but do a search and check the sites you find, I will still say buy the book, remember knowlege is power so it can’t hurt and will be well worth the money, if you have any Q’s please ask and I’ll try to answer, I’ll give you an example of my work out if you would like. peace

Mr. Ox
I was a phone consultation client of Mike Mentzers for about 2 years. My typical routine was working out once every 7 days. One week I would do 2 warmup sets and then one set to failure of squats. Trying to hit failure at about rep 8. When I worked up to 15 reps at this weight we would up the reps. That same day I would do one set to failure of pulldowns. The next week I would do one set to failure of deadlifts and then weighted dips. When progress would stop we would switch things up and do non compound exercises for a couple of weeks and then go back, always training for strength.
My opinion. Mixed. I think it has its place for short periods of time.I did make great improvements in strength, but I was disappointed in hypertrophy. I actually put on more leg size in one 12 week Ian King program than I did in 2 years of HIT. You be your own judge. His books, yes I have all of them, do make for interesting reading. Just don’t be brainwased into thinking that it is the one and only valid theory of bodybuilding.

After weighing 160 lbs (@ 5 foot 7’’) for 2 yrs, I finally got fed up
and kicked the “Hi-intensity” failure habit…I went to a seldom
failure hi-volume approach with heavier weights and lower reps .
Results: 4 months later, weight 166, and I still fit in my 32’s.
Nuff said!!!

I trained for about 4 months on HIT before giving it up. I got strong in the exercises I was doing but I wasn’t getting bigger. Unless you count the extra bodyfat i was accumulating. The 30 mins. 2x a week sessions were not enough work to keep me in shape.

…and the controversy continues!!!

Hetyey, I would be interested in seeing what your workouts are like. Also, what is your training age? Thanks.

I read almost everything Mike Mentzer ever wrote (easy with all the over lapping!). Today, I don’t use HIT all the time, but there is always a lil’ HIT behind my programs. I really like Ian King’s 12 weeks programs. I think Ian is not that far from HIT by the way. Mike Mentzer though me bodybuilding on a different angle. I think it is wise to read different experts with different point of views. Mentzer is one you could read.

don’t listen to that blowhard. Hetyeh is the same guy who claimed to gain like 60 lbs of muscle in 6 weeks on “Heavy Duty” training.

pro$$#$#^, on may 5th I went back to the gym to give you an example, my first work out back I did hammer low rows w/180x7 my last workout I did 410x4, as for body wt. I lost wt. from 258 to about 230 (kinda been around there for a couple of weeks) I said I gained 20-25lbs of muscle but I said I had no body comp done, I know I added about 2 inches to my arms and got alot bigger and stronger but I don’t know exactley how much muscle I put on. also I can not remember when calling people names made a point, just a thought. peace

I’m 31, I do legs on thursday, leg press warm up then super set leg extentions and leg press for 1 superset, then squats w/ one warmup to loosen my back then one heavy set of 8-20 then I do some kinda deads (just swiched to stiffleg) for a set of 8-15 then one drop set of calve raises. thats it I leave. tues and sat I start w/hammer low rows 2-3 warm ups then 1 set ( usualy a rest pause set or a drop set) then dips same as rows, then seated cable rows 1 set to failure, then decline db press 1 set to failure, then incline db curls 1 drop set, then rotator cuff exercises(lt. not heavey) I’m gonna add the 4-way neck when my ear heals :frowning: thats it I’m done and I keep getting stronger and bigger. and I am not a newbie, I am just comeing back off a layoff but I have trained this way for a long time now ( I have trained the popular “volume” style too but well I’ll leave it at that) peace

People like you piss me off to no end for one very simple reason. You draw other unsuspecting people in with your bullshit and dogmatic faith in the Heavy Duty system. The truth of the matter is that you have never experienced such a dramatic change in your physique. I would be willing to bet anything that you are pathetically out of shape, unless you spend 4 or 5 other days of the week that you use to recuperate from all the “inroads into recovery” that those 3 sets to failure give you, and use those days for heavy manual labor or some other physically demanding endeavor. You take people away from worthwhile training methods, people who otherwise could get in great shape. But thanks to you, they waste precious time and energy (not much energy, thanks to the pitiful volume of work) getting fat, lazy, and out of shape training with such a ridiculous, stupid, non-functional, bass-ackwards training system. Why don’t you try asking our new friend Coach Davies about someone interested in the health and aesthetic benefits of exercise doing 3-5 sets to failure once a week? I’ve known many people like you, Hetyeh, dogmatic followers of Heavy Duty. I was one of them, so I feel your pain. You can be as passionate about the training system as you want, but it doesn’t change the reality of its uselessness.

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gee first you insult me, then you say what I do and are WAY off base then you say I am a dogmatic follower of HIT and are wrong again. someone ASKED for feedback and I gave it, you don’t have to like it, I don’t care if you do or not, what I do care about is people that spew what they like while they hide behind a fake name and their computer and state lies of others (you can not even count, leg day is 5-6sets after warm up and upper body is 5-6 sets after warm up) are you upset 'cause you can NEVER match my progress? are you mad 'cause since may 5th I have gotten bigger and stronger than you EVER could? their is another person that visits T-mag often that lives in NJ as I do (I will not give their name 'cause they did not ask to be brought up) I have asked this person if they would like to workout next time I am in their area and I am waiting on their response, if they take me up on it I will show them the before pics I have and they can judge (if you live ANYWHERE near NJ I will offer you the same) but you know what you will say if he posts what he sees, “he must be a friend of hetyey’s” then you will say I am on juice (not) I will take any drug test that anyone pays for and if I fail (I will not) I will re pay x’s 2. sounds fair don’t it, but you will NEVER take me up on it when you can hide behind your computer! as always peace

ya know, I really don’t get this fucking internet tough guy thing that people around here like to spew. Hetyeh, I have no idea who you are and don’t have any interest in meeting you. I live in Atlanta, so what’s your fucking point? You want me to fly up to NJ just to see you in person to validate whether or not HIT is effective? I’ll pass. And you’re so “courageous,” why don’t you post your name for all to see? So how’s about we forgo your little “challenge” and stick to the issue at hand. Does Heavy Duty work? My contention is that the volume is too light for general fitness and health purposes, not to mention hypertrophy. I have known many HIT and Mentzer die-hards, I used to be one of them, and I have yet to meet a single one who has put on ANY appreciable amount of muscle or strength using these methods. So I disagree with the philosophy in theory, and the empirical evidence I have agrees with me. You’re curious as to why I’m jumping on you just for “giving your opinion?” It’s simple. I don’t want the other people that participate in this board to follow your example and practice a training system that has no merit and will lead to nothing but laziness and a slovenly physique. Again, let’s stick with methods of argument that may serve us some purpose. Again I ask you to seek council with Coach John Davies, who has trained high-caliber athletes for years, what his opinion of your training methods are? Or how about Charles Poliquin? or maybe Pavel? Or ANY coach who has years of experience with REAL athletes? At best, you’ll find them say that it is useful only for short periods or when life is so constricting that they have no recovery ability whatsoever.

and you’re right, I probably wouldn’t believe it if some other “person” posted on the board and said that he met you and were some stud. Because out of the 20+ people I’ve met before you that have used the Heavy Duty system, ZERO made any significant gains with it. I guess you could be the one exception, but I doubt it.

If you read the most recent BTS you will see my letter that got published.

HIT like everything else works…it just does not work all the time.
I like to use it for about 6 weeks twice a year now…in the past I trained it year round, but I did two full body sessions weekly…training 2-3 sets per big muscle group and 1-2 for small…did it work yes…did it stop working? yes!..does every program have faults? yes! Try following GVT with some hit…you will grow.

As for it not working…I would say if it did not work did you train to absolute failure?
Trust me do a set of 20 rep breathing squats to failure…stumble over and do 15 rep stiff leg deads to failure and the do 20 rep leg press to failure…number on ethe time uner tension is along time and if you are not blowing chow…help yourself and do it again and again, but I would say if you can do it again you did not put eneough into the first!

If you do not think this works come to my gym and I will put you through a session or two....but like I said it does not work forever...you must change things up!

I have a question for you; exactly what kind of HIT routine did you follow? Heavy Duty is not the only thing in HIT. Try 3x week, full body, as hard as you can 9-14 exercises one set each. Do it with 100 sec or less rest between sets. Do the big lifts and the little ones you like.
Do you really think you will get fat and lazy doing this?

Well, personally I used the exact workout outlined in Heavy Duty II, which certainly did not advocate 2 full body workouts per week. Rather each muscle was hit once every 20 days or so on a five day rotation I think (i don’t have it in front of me right now), using 1 or 2 sets per muscle group. The leg workout certainly wasn’t a set of breathing squats to failure followed by stiff leg deads and leg presses. It was more like one set of Smith Machine back squats followed by one set of leg extensions and one set of leg curls. After the leg workout I remember being fully recovered and ready to train legs again after 3 or 4 days at most. The workout you described (2 full body workouts per week) is certainly NOT what Mike Mentzer advocated, and represents a frequency of twice per week, rather than once every 3 weeks as Hetyeh has been doing.

Progaghandi, while HIT is a great training theory, it’s applications vary (although not SO greatly) by the individual. Most gym rats have the silly notion that more is better, which, while clearly false, does not imply that less is better. HIT says “As hard as necessary, as breif as possible, as frequently as necessary”. For the trainee, this translates to "Do it as hard as you possibly can (and we can always do it harder) do it as breifly as you can (meaning the exact amount of exercise necessary for the best gains) and do it as frequently as possible (meaning once you recover and grow, hit it again). So the modification of the inputs (intensity, volume, frequency) is clear (increase, decrease, decrease) for “breaking plateus”, where we start is VERY important. Some people can only tollerate a small amount of exercise, others almost need more. Muscle fibers work on an all or none basis, so doing more than one set of an exercise won’t fatigue any new fibres (or the same ones more thouroughly) but of course would be more practice (for power lifting and such). If you give the old Nautlilus style stuff a try (they all included chins, dips, stiff deads and barbell squats) you will grow nicely.