T Nation

Heaven, Hell, and Human's Need to Be Remebered


I got into HH's stash and got to thinking.

How's this?

Heaven fills the need for people to be remembered in a good light by friends,family and peers. It does this by promoting behaviors that will keep the deceased in positive terms. Whereas Hell seems to be a place of empty nothingness and to end up there one needs to engage in non life promoting acts. The worse a person is in life the easier it is to hate or even forget them in death, right? What's worse to a narcissistic being like humans than being hated forever?

Is the origin of religion this?

A group of intellectuals wishing to control the masses plays on their own lust for immortality through the ages and create heaven and hell? Heaven and Hell are used as conditioning tools to enforce behaviors that ensure the survival of a particular culture, therein, a preservation of the bloodline's leadership? This is a universal and not a Christian thing..just the religions that reward and punish in the afterlife.

um, what?


Heaven feels good. Hell feels bad. I think that's what they were going for.


I'm going to pull a Wolbarret and say: Book of Eli. Watch it. Good movie.


I think it's more likely that any religion that didn't contain punishment died out.


Religion was invented to control man.


inb4 this moves to pwi


i'm gewd


better, the mechanisms that control man were eventually transmuted into one sacred object or place. The natural energy we feel with other humans (think at a football stadium or the L.A. riots) can be manipulated by a few.


Another one of these?


The argument for non-existence of Heaven and Hell (hence, the non-existence of God) fills the need for people to avoid accountability for their actions and remain cognitively consistent when relinquishing self-control and power by submitting to their animal urges and indulging in whatever acts they please, to whatever degree of morality?

A group of intellectuals wishing to control the masses plays on their own lust for immorality and creates empiricism, skepticism, nihilism and the overall idea of moral relativism?

See what I did there?

On a sidenote. When are you guys going to finally get it into your thick skulls that not all people who believe in God, Heaven and Hell act morally based upon the desire to avoid punishment and get a doggy treat?


Wait, you get treats in heaven? Sign my ass up!



Logic fail happening here. The existence of heaven or hell is not contingent on the deisre to enforce, or remove, moral accountability.


I wasnt talking about that at all.


No clue what you are talking about. You are going to have to express your ideas more clearly.


Here's what you said:

Here's what I read that as:

Heaven and Hell are fabrications created by slick humans as a means of controlling the sucker humans.

You tell me another way I'm supposed to take that. I guess I am just as thick as cold molasses, and you and Popeye both know more definitions than I do for the words "create," "control," "enforce," "condition," and "behavior."

Anyway, I was just "creating" an alternative idea for "controlling," "enforcing," and "conditioning" certain "behaviors" particular to the human race. Take it or leave it. It's all relative, right?


Ahh, in that case, I've got just the religion for you, my friend. Allow me to show you our Muslim model. It's right this way...



It is pretty sweet, but there is an awful lot of sand and turbin wearin. I Like sand, but only if it's next to water, got anything like that?



72 virgins and a beach? Sounds like heaven to me!


Ok, that part could be ommited from my question.It really isnt worded correctly. Sory for the misleading concept.

What I'm asking is if the whole reason for religion and afterlife is to ease our minds into believing we won't be forgotten?


People's concept of heaven and hell is completely wrong according to the Christian view. Nowhere in the Bible does it say heaven will be filled with all your desires and hell will be filled with eternal torture. Heaven, as in Biblical references, is a place to worship, glorify, and be with God for all eternity. Heaven is for God, not for man just like man was made for God not vice versa. Hell is a place of eternal separation from God. It is not a place where you will be tortured around the clock for all eternity.

In this view, I think Hank Hanegraaff described it best saying those who wind up in hell want to wind up in hell. They have spent their entire lives trying to avoid a relationship with God. So when they wind up separated from him for all eternity they have successfully gotten what they want. This isn't being mean spirited or vicious. Why would someone that didn't love God want to go to heaven where they would be with him forever? It's like saying all roads lead to heaven. Then what about those that don't believe in heaven?


No, it is not. I do not think there is one teaching that I know of that would ease my mind if that was my worry, if anything there is teachings that would make me believe my fears to be true.