T Nation

Healthiest Stack Advice?

Thanks for the tag @readalot ! I’ve actually been diving deeply into how to minimize (or even completely prevent) the negative effects of blasting. I’m not going to post sources, as I’ve been through too many and that would be cumbersome, but they are easily found. Some of this is not definitive; it’s new research.

Dyslipidemia: It’s my understanding that the rise in LDL is mostly an issue with the presence of systemic inflammation, since it’s used by the body to “fix” lesions in the circulatory system.

This inflammation, as far as AAS use, can be heightened dramatically by the type of carrier oils and co-solvents that are used in the drug product. Propylene glycol is frequently used as a co-solvent for drugs (like tren) that are poorly soluble in pharma-grade carrier oils like cottonseed oil and castor oil, and causes an increase in C-reactive protein, which is a marker of systemic inflammation. Peanut oil does the same thing, due to the presence of peanut agglutinin.

The way to fix this is by the use of ezetimibe, using only pharma-grade gear (like test and Bayer primo), taking supplements like citrus bergamot, and by caring for the liver.

Liver: We all know the use of orals causes liver issues. The alkylation at C-17 allows the drug to survive the first pass in hepatic metabolism. This is because the C-17 hydroxyl would typically be oxidized to a ketone by oxidative enzymes in the hepatocyte, but this is blocked my the alkyl group. These oxidants cause cell death and the drug is released into the bloodstream.

The way to fix this is to allow the tablet to dissolve sublingually, which skips (mostly) the first pass in the liver. Also, treating orals as preworkout supplements instead of anabolic agents will reduce hepatic damage - leave the anabolism to the injectables. Switching between 2 or more different orals (e.g., tbol one day, anadrol the next) will prevent tachyphylaxis and eliminate the need for an increase in dose. Hepatic damage is increased significantly more by daily use; give the liver a break.

Daily use of TUDCA, vitamin E, and NAC will help with liver issues as well.

Or… don’t use orals!

Cardiac: Heart remodeling is a major concern with AAS use. This can be reduced significantly by the use of something like nebivolol and using HGH as far from lifting sessions/cardio as possible. Also, keep BP down.

Renal/CVS: Blood pressure can increase dramatically with AAS use, especially with drugs that aromatize. HGH can also cause fluid retention and spike BP. The use of telmisartan can really help with this issue. Start low and increase as needed.

19-nor derivatives can also cause renal issues. Avoid these, especially tren.

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I did. From a risk mitigation standpoint, make sure you know where you sit and are collecting the data required to protect yourself to whatever level of risk you are comfortable with. Sorry my attempt at helpful feedback and comedy was not good enough.

It’s actually the complete opposite. It’s about planning for failure modes and ensuring the redundancy or mitigating systems are in place to address them. Maybe you won’t like this article or maybe you will.

BTW, Dr. Stapp for those who actually read the essay above reminds me a lot of @hankthetank89 and other highly intelligent, partially autistic (compliment BTW) strength “athletes” who are willing to die for all you bastards in the name of science and the holy pursuit of knowledge and gainz.

Being a self-proclaimed Masochist (of science), Dr. Stapp would then again attempt to surpass the 35 Gs limit he had set — with Murphy’s Law in mind, of course. The sled launched at blinding speeds upwards of 1,017 kilometers per hour, which came to a full stop, yielding 46.2 Gs on the scale. His injuries afterwards were even more substantial than the previous tests causing him to be temporarily blind for a few hours and damaging internal organs as well as bones. But he wasn’t done yet, after he recovered, he then tried to set-up a new trial and tested it first with a dummy. That test reached around 80 Gs and ominously ripped apart the tracks in the process. His colleagues and superiors — well aware that his end goal is to be severely incapacitated or even his own death— got word of this, and decided to step in, shutting the project for good.

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=uTdSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XjYNAAAAIBAJ&pg=1260%2C1777082

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My main concern was generating random data and adding a single data point clearly much greater than 3 sigma from the mean to create a authentic looking graph is misleading to the less statistically astute person.

I can be as aware as is reasonably possible of all the potential failure modes and effects of all possible interventions or discoveries of a process and reject the common understanding of Murphy’s Law. And I do. The universe is not plotting against anyone, except in their mind.

Suit yourself. Good point, my understanding and take on Murphy’s Law is anything but common. If one uses Murphy’s Law to make excuses and quit (or not even start) then I agree.

Complexity is in the eyes of the beholder so plan ahead and make sure at least someone on your team doesn’t think the system is complex if you are going to successfully install and operate any complex system. Or be prepared for failure. That’s all. [Paraphrased from an excellent article circa 1986 in Automated Material Handling section of Industrial Product Bulletin by James Tompkins]. If anyone interested I can dig up a copy of the original. Quite good.

Amen brother

Ought to be noted, I’ll link data later BUT… the deterioration in cardiac function appears to partially revert back to some semblance of normality once use is ceased

Also important to note, cutoff for LVEF varies from 50-55%

Also needs to be noted the dosages and duration of use with many of these studies tends to be quite high. Talking 500-700mg/wk over around a decade of cumulative exposure.

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Haha. Yeah I was aware and being a little tongue and cheek. Sorry. Yes, we did have some spirited discussions over the last couple of years. I routinely tag @dbossa and @yeti308 for some good natured ribbing. Please excuse my indulgence.

Not sure what this was in reply to based on the post you tagged, but no argument from me on the comments you make here. Thanks for sharing with the group.

Ah, that’s on me man, my autism is showing again. Sometimes sarcasm is completely lost on me, especially when it’s not in-person.

Hey I think we have a bunch in here :grinning:. I’m definitely in the group.

No worries! It’s our own autism spectrum gainz-enthusiast club. :+1:

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Sorry being late on this reply, but are you putting Deca and NPP under Nandrolone? Or did you just mean Deca?

I’ve been told by others I’m on the spectrum. Never was diagnosed with it, but my brother is low functioning autistic, and I was diagnosed with ADHD growing up. Not claiming I’m on the spectrum, but it’s a possibility. I’ve always made friends really easily, so that would indicate that perhaps I’m not.

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Yes, deca and NPP are both under the nandrolone umbrella (as is the more rare nand cyp).

Why isn’t there a nand ace or prop? Are the certain esters that just don’t bind to certain compounds?

DECA needs to be ran longer than 12 weeks typically and should be limited to people on TRT as it will take a very very long time to recover from. HPTA will be suppressed for 12 to 18 months.

Test will be your most anabolic safe option.
Mast and Primo are your next 2 options for safe things to add. EQ being the final option but has some minor sides like anxiety issues and a carcinogen as it is not intended for human consumption.

Mast won’t add a ton of muscle but will make you feel amazing, strength gains and look very dry and vascular. Will cause hair loss if you’re prone.

Primo can be taken at massive dosages and doesn’t seem to have a drop off in efficacy like test and some other drugs do. Makes you look, dry, lean and full as well as some vascularity. It is only 12% less anabolic than test and a 400 test/ 600 primo combo would be great. However, it is very pricey.

Most of the esters date back to some sort of clinical application, which means the formula exists and is easy to replicate. Beyond those there are the ones that were created strictly for elicit purposes. You could get a manufacturer to attach any ester you want to a hormone. Problem is they’ll require you buy 500kg of it once it’s been made. So what’s available is largely a function of raw providers being unwilling to spend $500,000 on a one-off product that may sit on their shelves for years. It’s why trest e and d are so hard to find. They’re easy to make but the majority of the vendors know it’ll take forever to sell through so they don’t buy it, which in turn leads to the manufacturers making less of it.

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