T Nation

'He Could Not Resist the Urge to Kill 3mo Old'


The Israeli army on Sunday confirmed the recent arrest of two young Palestinian Arabs for the March 11 slaughter of the Fogel family in the northern Samaria Jewish community of Itamar.

An army spokesman told Israel Radio that 18-year-old Hakem Awwad and 19-year-old Amjad Awwad confessed to the murders of Udi and Ruth Fogel and three of their young children, and that they showed absolutely no remorse for their crime.

Reenacting the murder, the young suspects told security officials that they infiltrated Itamar at around 9 PM armed with knives. They proceeded to enter a home that was empty and stole an M-16 rifle that they found there.

The killers then broke into the Fogel home, found the bedrooms of 11-year-old Yoav Fogel and 4-year-old Elad Fogel and stabbed them to death. They then entered the parents' bedroom, where they struggled with and overcome Udi and Ruth Fogel.

After exiting the house, Amjad told officials that he could not resist the urge to go back in and kill 3-month-old Hadas Fogel, who was left crying amidst her parents' blood.

Amjad also said that had he known there were two other children sleeping in the house, he would have killed them, too.

Following the attack, the youths returned to their nearby village and informed various family members of their villainous deed. An uncle helped hide the knives, burn the bloody clothes and get rid of the M-16 rifle they had stolen. Other family members helped cover up the murder in other ways.

Security officials believe the Awwad boys acted on their own volition, and were not following the orders of an established terrorist organization, though they were widely praised by such organizations.

Israel has been facing an increasing phenomenon of young Arabs engaging not only in stone throwing, but cold-blooded murder. Security officials and Israeli lawmakers have attributed the trend to poor parenting, to put it lightly, and have noted that Arab parents are more often than not ready to help their children cover up such crimes, rather than discipline them.

It is also important to note that Palestinian society views the killers of Israeli Jews, and especially Israeli residents of Judea and Samaria as national heroes, increasing the motivation to engage in such violence.


These are Israel's "peace partners" so many posters here think are great.

Grow up and recognize evil when you see it.


Whether they are or not is irrelevant. This is their problem, not mine.


this is the most disturbing part. every society has its serial killers, but most societies dont endorse them


Yes, some people are not able or willing to stand up to evil.

I suppose it is good to know one's own limitations.


I'm coming back with some nice little entries from a war diary from a Palestinian girl during the middle of Israel's occupation (very recently written). There is a reason those boys were so hateful. There's cold, ruthless killing on both sides, everyone is blaming the other side for their actions, and it continues.

Until both sides are held responsible, there will be no peace. For every story you have of a cold blooded murder of the Jewish family, there is one of a Palestinian facing well-armed Israeli troops and trying to throw rocks at them. You can find live footage of Israeli soldiers surrounded an unarmed man on his way home with guns, forcing him and his friend down, and beating them with rocks.

Jewbacca, you talk like Israel's hand is completely forced and they do no evil. Both sides are doing massive evil. If America was openly occupying a territory today with the same harsh measures that Israel is using, we'd be rioting right now.


I STILL don't get why we support Israel so unwaveringly...


If arabs left Israel alone there would be no violence in that region. End of story.
Of course it's not going to happen as they've been showing their irrational hate for Israel since the day the state of Israel was established.


Sadly, this is true.


I think that if all jews were to go to Israel and stay there if only palestinians were destroyed, the palestinians would already be extinct as gentiles would have helped jews destroy them, with great guilt in their hearts but seeing it as necessary collateral damage for a greater cause. Palestinians do not affect the lives of foreigners hardly at all, unless a few are somehow accepted as immigrants as humanitarian reasons. International jews do cause a lot of consternation all over the world.


No we wouldn't. This is like America occupying Florida and Cubans pretending like they have lived there for ever.


Assuming you're American, if you're willing to fight for another country by all means put your money where your mouth is and join the IDF.


inb4 shitstorm


You'd think a man that was already part of the IDF for 26 years (10 years active) wouldn't have to join the IDF again, you know...because he's already in it.


You aren't understanding my term "occupy". I don't mean "live there". I mean going into part of someone else's country and staying there with tanks, which is currently where Israel is. I'm not referring to Israel; I mean the land outside of its boundaries. They are currently occupying the enemy territory, not to live there, simply to frighten the citizens and keep them away from their boarder.


Entries from Mary Masrieh Hazboun's diary (from the collection "Stolen Voices: Young People's War Diaries, from world war 1 to present):

April 11, 2002

Today was the worst day. Not because of what is happening in Bethlehem-we got used to that. Tanks all around; I can't sleep; I can't study. I just cried all say about what happened elsewhere, especially in Jenin. Hundreds of people killed. Many lie in the streets for three or four days; nobody can bury them. They don't allow TV to come in.
Now I can hear tanks near my room. It has become normal. I don't feel afraid. I wake up to the sound of bullets and I go to sleep at the sound of bullets. I was not afraid when, two days ago, I went out to buy some bread with my four-year-old cousin. The tanks in the street started to shoot and shell. Two days ago a man was killed in the street while he was bringing food to his children. He went out during the curfew because his family was in need.
The situation in the Church is the same. I called Father Rafael. He is one of the priests in the church. He told me they had not eaten anything for six days.
I can't really write everything because I can't translate my feelings into normal words. In this world, the truth is buried. When you say a word of truth, you are smashed and killed under there tanks.

April 15, 2002
...Today they entered a building in Doha, an area near the Dheisheh refuge camp, which is near our house. They ordered the women and children to go out and then took all the men, put them in armored vehicles, and drove them away. The women and children are now on the streets, the children sleep on the ground. The Israeli soldiers claim that there were some men with weapons hiding in the building. When they shelled it, a woman who could not run away was killed. Her baby of six months was injured.

April 16 2002,
Today was one of the worst days. I woke up to the sounds of bullets from tanks across our street. The street was empty, they just shoot to terrify people...
The minute I wanted to go out, my uncle shouted at me not to move because there was a tank across the street. I could hear its sound clearly. Then my uncle's voice disappeared. I wanted to look out from the door to make sure it was safe. As soon as I opened the door, a rain of bullets came in my direction. I ran as fast as I could and hid behind a huge cupboard in my uncles house. I heard my brother and cousins screaming, but I could do nothing...
They know we are civilians, but they don't want to see anything moving.
At seven o'clock, the soldiers started shooting from all sides at the church. Two of the priest's rooms were burned. There was no shooting from inside the church. The windows were broken. Two men were injured...I started to cry. Where are the Christians who have dignity and faith? My church has become a war zone. I wish that I can once again pray some day in the future.
I will tell these words to all the people who live peacefully and happily in their independent countries: Just remember when you eat that there are hundreds of children who die from hunger because they are Palestinians. Remember when you drink water that there are hundreds of children who drink dirty water from the ground because they are Palestinians. Remember that when you go to sleep that there are hundreds of homeless children who sleep wearing nothing because they are Palestinians.

BTW, some important background to the story above is that the Israeli soldiers ran into Mary's church after shooting a bunch of men because the Church is considered a no-harm zone, regardless of what the people entering it had done. It's in the journal.

I'm sure you can probably find more information on this girl's work on the internets. She passed her exams and moved out of the country.


You poor brainwashed fool. This was all a Zionist conspiracy planned at Bilderberg. As was the guided missile attack on a school bus and the murder of poor Vittorio Arrigoni last week. Don't you realise that the pro-Palestinian/anti-Israeli media in Western democracies is controlled by the evil Zionist conspirators? It's all part of an international plot to create more Christian babies for passover blood. In fact, President Hussein Obama is really a Mossad agent with boot polish on his face. Wake up dude!




Like I said, IF he is an American. In other words, I was not sure whether he was an American or not or whether or not he was a soldier in the IDF. I don't spend enough time here to know everyone yet. If what you say is true, his view does not surprise me in the least.

No thanks Jewbacca, I have no interest in fighting other country's war. Plus, since the US is $14 trillion in debt, I see no reason to subsidize other countries for that purpose.


Some more background is that the "massacre" at Jenin has been reveaaled for years as a big fat lie:
"On 1 August 2002 a UN Report showed that the Israeli figures were right; it said that 52 Palestinians had been killed in Jenin, the majority was proven as gunmen, and former Palestinian reports about 500 civilians killed - were not true. **

(**The Report of the Secretary-General prepared pursuant to General Assembly resolution ES-10/10 - 2002 [ http://www.un.org/peace/jenin/index.html Paragraph 56] says [quote] " Fifty-two Palestinian deaths had been confirmed by the hospital in Jenin by the end of May 2002. IDF also place the death toll at approximately 52. A senior Palestinian Authority official alleged in mid-April that some 500 were killed, a figure that has not been substantiated in the light of the evidence that has emerged." [unquote] )

The exact figure of civilians out of the 52 dead was more difficult to prove. The Israelis claimed 7 Palestinian civilian casualties. The Palestinians claimed twenty, however admitted that most of their dead had been fighters and took pride in killing 23 Israeli soldiers in the battle of Jenin. Israel paid the life of these 23 soldiers for doing a surgical land operation instead of air strikes in order to save the life of Palestinian civilians who were routinely used as human shield by Palestinian gunmen***. (***Quoting the UN Report: "Much of the fighting during Operation Defensive Shield occurred in areas heavily populated by civilians, in large part because the armed Palestinian groups sought by IDF placed their combatants and installations among civilians. Palestinian groups are alleged to have widely booby-trapped civilian homes...") "

As for the "occupation". SORRY! Like the partitioned territory in Pakistan, Kashmir, the West Bank is disputed territory. Gaza and East Jerusalem were ILLEGALLY invaded and occupied by Egypt and Jordan respectively in 1948. THis was territory that was unquestionably Israel's.
The Israelis took these back in back in 1967.
The only reason any part of Israel is regarded as "illegally" occupied is because the Muslims took it over years after Jews and Christians were living in the land and in Islam, once Muslims have lived anywhere, even if they stole land from their original inhabitants, it is Islamic AND THEREFORE "ILLEGALLY" "occupied". They look at Andalusia this way at the moment too, not just Israel and not just Kashmir.

The whole world belongs to Allah, in the eyes of Muslims, and the Muslim Brotherhood is actively campaigning in America and the rest of the world to render it all Muslim territory.

The war against Israel is a jihad conducted by Arab Muslims, of which the Palestinians are a part. Jihad is being waged against the rest of the world including America by Arabic Muslims and also by non-Arabic Muslims like the Muslims in Indonesia cf Bali bombing. In Russia it's the Chechens, China the Uighurs etc.

Limiting this battle to the Israelis vs Palestinians hardly scratches the surface of the true scope of this awful situation.


No thanks Jewbacca, I have no interest in fighting other country's war. Plus, since the US is $14 trillion in debt, I see no reason to subsidize other countries for that purpose.[/quote]

Israel is fighting OUR war. Who do you think Iran/Syria/Hamas/Hezbollah would be murdering if there weren't Jews in Israel(apart from themselves)? Remember the Iranian hostage crisis? The US Marine barracks truck bombing in the Lebananon? The anti-American/Western propaganda that floods out these places? In Turkey for instance, Americans and other citizens of western democracies are referred to simply as 'the Jews'.

Thank you Israel for fighting in the vanguard of OUR war.