T Nation

He Comin

[quote]drewh wrote:
And your dumb if you think going up in weight doesn’t effect speed.[/quote]

It certainly did. And Marquez could not come anywhere near Floyd’s hand speed- Marquez was outclassed in every way.

But yes, this was a safe fight for Floyd. Big reach advantage, another counterpuncher, guy fighting two classes out of his division, first time fighting at the weight- this all pointed to Floyd winning.

What it didn’t point to was Floyd running that kind of demolition on the number 2 pound for pound champ. I don’t give a fuck what weight it’s at- when Floyd is LANDING 63 percent of his punches and Marquez is landing 8 percent… that’s just unbelievable.

There were words with Sugar Shane after the fight… now THAT’s the fight I want to see. Big, strong Sugar Shane who hits hard and is fast as shit against Floyd… that’s a different fight than Floyd has ever fought.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
drewh wrote:
And your dumb if you think going up in weight doesn’t effect speed.

It certainly did. And Marquez could not come anywhere near Floyd’s hand speed- Marquez was outclassed in every way.

But yes, this was a safe fight for Floyd. Big reach advantage, another counterpuncher, guy fighting two classes out of his division, first time fighting at the weight- this all pointed to Floyd winning.

What it didn’t point to was Floyd running that kind of demolition on the number 2 pound for pound champ. I don’t give a fuck what weight it’s at- when Floyd is LANDING 63 percent of his punches and Marquez is landing 8 percent… that’s just unbelievable.

There were words with Sugar Shane after the fight… now THAT’s the fight I want to see. Big, strong Sugar Shane who hits hard and is fast as shit against Floyd… that’s a different fight than Floyd has ever fought.[/quote]

But it is easier to land on someone when you do have a big reach and speed advantage and the person can’t hurt you. You can throw punches in bunches with no fear. Felt bad for Marquez, never had a chance.

Shane and Floyd I’ll pay to see.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
drewh wrote:
And your dumb if you think going up in weight doesn’t effect speed.

It certainly did. And Marquez could not come anywhere near Floyd’s hand speed- Marquez was outclassed in every way.

But yes, this was a safe fight for Floyd. Big reach advantage, another counterpuncher, guy fighting two classes out of his division, first time fighting at the weight- this all pointed to Floyd winning.

What it didn’t point to was Floyd running that kind of demolition on the number 2 pound for pound champ. I don’t give a fuck what weight it’s at- when Floyd is LANDING 63 percent of his punches and Marquez is landing 8 percent… that’s just unbelievable.

There were words with Sugar Shane after the fight… now THAT’s the fight I want to see. Big, strong Sugar Shane who hits hard and is fast as shit against Floyd… that’s a different fight than Floyd has ever fought.[/quote]

I had so much respect for Marquez for pushing and pushing to the final bell even though it was obvious that he was overmatched by fighting a guy a good 10 lb heavier.

Yes Mayweather looked good but I don’t think he did anything for his legacy.

It doesn’t matter what weight these guys fought at. Floyd would still have the speed advantage and is the best defensive fighter in boxing today. He still wouldn’t get caught by Marquez.

Pacman would suffer the same fate since he has trouble with counter punchers (like Marquez) and Floyd’s an even better counter puncher than Marquez.

Also, don’t forget this is Floyd’s first fight in 2 years. He looked like he never missed a beat.

[quote]Reef wrote:
It doesn’t matter what weight these guys fought at. Floyd would still have the speed advantage and is the best defensive fighter in boxing today. He still wouldn’t get caught by Marquez.

Pacman would suffer the same fate since he has trouble with counter punchers (like Marquez) and Floyd’s an even better counter puncher than Marquez.

Also, don’t forget this is Floyd’s first fight in 2 years. He looked like he never missed a beat. [/quote]

Exactly.

Marquez is nearly the same exact fighter as Pac, just the orthodox version. About the same speed, power, size, and skill.

With Floyd doing that to Marquez, I don’t think there’s any question that Mayweather would demolish Pacman, especially if that fight took place at 147.

The only way Floyd could get beaten would be if he dropped that handspeed. It was still there in spades- leading with hooks (which very few can do), not even needing to bring the straight right out as much as in past fights… it was incredible.

If he beats Pacquaio and Shane Mosley, and perhaps Cotto or Clottey, he has to be in the middle of everyone’s Top 10 of all time.

And also- he fought the entire night with his left hand by his waist. Nobody stands in front of a fighter like Marquez in that stance, much less stands there but only gets hit by two or three punches a round.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Reef wrote:
It doesn’t matter what weight these guys fought at. Floyd would still have the speed advantage and is the best defensive fighter in boxing today. He still wouldn’t get caught by Marquez.

Pacman would suffer the same fate since he has trouble with counter punchers (like Marquez) and Floyd’s an even better counter puncher than Marquez.

Also, don’t forget this is Floyd’s first fight in 2 years. He looked like he never missed a beat.

Exactly.

Marquez is nearly the same exact fighter as Pac, just the orthodox version. About the same speed, power, size, and skill.

With Floyd doing that to Marquez, I don’t think there’s any question that Mayweather would demolish Pacman, especially if that fight took place at 147.

The only way Floyd could get beaten would be if he dropped that handspeed. It was still there in spades- leading with hooks (which very few can do), not even needing to bring the straight right out as much as in past fights… it was incredible.

If he beats Pacquaio and Shane Mosley, and perhaps Cotto or Clottey, he has to be in the middle of everyone’s Top 10 of all time. [/quote]

Agreed. His ATG status will skyrocket if he beats the guys you listed.

Can’t wait for Nipple/Klitschko and Pac/Cotto!

If he does hell be lower tier top 10 imo no way he will ever be higher than Duran, Pep, Louis etc… 6 0r 7 for sure though if he does. I fell like Pac has gotten better and would kill Marquez now though.

[quote]drewh wrote:
If he does hell be lower tier top 10 imo no way he will ever be higher than Duran, Pep, Louis etc… 6 0r 7 for sure though if he does. [/quote]

Agreed. He’ll never beat a Sugar Ray Robinson/Joe Louis/Duran/Leonard, but he’ll be around 7 or 8 on my list.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
Reef wrote:
It doesn’t matter what weight these guys fought at. Floyd would still have the speed advantage and is the best defensive fighter in boxing today. He still wouldn’t get caught by Marquez.

Pacman would suffer the same fate since he has trouble with counter punchers (like Marquez) and Floyd’s an even better counter puncher than Marquez.

Also, don’t forget this is Floyd’s first fight in 2 years. He looked like he never missed a beat.

Exactly.

Marquez is nearly the same exact fighter as Pac, just the orthodox version. About the same speed, power, size, and skill.

With Floyd doing that to Marquez, I don’t think there’s any question that Mayweather would demolish Pacman, especially if that fight took place at 147.

The only way Floyd could get beaten would be if he dropped that handspeed. It was still there in spades- leading with hooks (which very few can do), not even needing to bring the straight right out as much as in past fights… it was incredible.

If he beats Pacquaio and Shane Mosley, and perhaps Cotto or Clottey, he has to be in the middle of everyone’s Top 10 of all time. [/quote]

C’mon Irish, you think Marquez is the same exact fighter as Pac, but an orthodox version? Pac has much, much better speed and power than Marquez at 140’s. But Marquez completely outshines Pac as a counter puncher. You’re comparing two completely different fighters with different styles. Your hatred for Pac clouds your judgment. I guess Marquez would have KO’d Hatton in 2 rounds too.
I’ll say it again, Floyd is a fighter with skills you just can’t teach. He is pound for pound until proven otherwise. If and when Pac fights Floyd, I’m hoping Pac catches Floyd on his chin because he does have the power to KO him. But the gambler in me says Floyd has the better chance of a KO because Pac will be coming forward so Floyd will have that opening to throw his right hand, a southpaw killer, in the words of Teddy Atlas.

[quote]fnf wrote:

C’mon Irish, you think Marquez is the same exact fighter as Pac, but an orthodox version? Pac has much, much better speed and power than Marquez at 140’s. But Marquez completely outshines Pac as a counter puncher. You’re comparing two completely different fighters with different styles. Your hatred for Pac clouds your judgment.
[/quote]

You’re right. I shouldn’t have phrased it like that. Pacquia is more of an attacker. What I meant more was that they both like to brawl, both fight like Mexicans- Pac sometimes more than Marquez.

At lightweight, they’re about the same as far as speed. Or, if Marquez is a bit slower, he makes up for it with timing and countering. But they’re even at lighter weights.

And I don’t hate Pac. I just think he cherrypicks. Hatton was a great fight, but I refuse to give him credit for beating up on a shit fighter in Diaz and a corpse like DLH.

I think he’d have knocked Hatton out. Maybe by the sixth.

Floyd has RARELY been hit cleanly in his career. He rolls everything off, and I doubt Pac would fare much better against Floyd. He’ll come right at him, and Floyd will outbox him all night.

Don’t look for Floyd to come anywhere near the point where he could be KO’d by Pac. He’ll be wary of that left hand- so wary that people will complain, but Floyd will win again.

Totally agree. I can see myself doing some really stupid betting on that one. I fucking love Shane Mosley and hope he’s not cheated out of the superfights he deserves. He’s 38… ain’t much time left…

Anyone that fights Mayweather needs to be physically imposing or they don’t stand a chance. Nobody’s going to beat him at his own game. I think Shane could bring it and pull off the upset.

mayweather is easily the best boxer of my generation, I think a lot of you are suffering from some kind of nostalgic lapses regarding other fighters if you’re saying pbf ain’t top ten all-time RIGHT NOW. The fact that he’s never been in wars only serves to illuminate his level of talent.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
mayweather is easily the best boxer of my generation, I think a lot of you are suffering from some kind of nostalgic lapses regarding other fighters if you’re saying pbf ain’t top ten all-time RIGHT NOW. The fact that he’s never been in wars only serves to illuminate his level of talent.[/quote]

I disagree. Since moving up to welterweight, he’s only fought one real welterweight (Baldomir). The rest have been blown up Junior welterweights that came up late in their careers (or never should have, like Hatton.)

He went to welter, then never fought the likes of Cotto, Mosley, and Margo, who have all fought each other. That hurts his legacy.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
slimjim wrote:
mayweather is easily the best boxer of my generation, I think a lot of you are suffering from some kind of nostalgic lapses regarding other fighters if you’re saying pbf ain’t top ten all-time RIGHT NOW. The fact that he’s never been in wars only serves to illuminate his level of talent.

I disagree. Since moving up to welterweight, he’s only fought one real welterweight (Baldomir). The rest have been blown up Junior welterweights that came up late in their careers (or never should have, like Hatton.)

He went to welter, then never fought the likes of Cotto, Mosley, and Margo, who have all fought each other. That hurts his legacy.[/quote]

A bit reductionist I think, the business of boxing has changed quite a bit over the years. further, he blew up and blew out his opponents. only boxer i can watch fight to a decision any day of the week, the talent and speed are incredible.

My top ten has Sugar Ray Robinson, Leonard, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, Joe Frazier, Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran, Ali, Roy Jones, Archie Moore, maybe Marciano, maybe Willie Pep, Gene Tunney… I mean, hell, Floyd barely broke the top 50 in ESPN’s article in 2007. Has he REALLY done that much to make him jump 40 spots over the HUGE names mentioned here?

Clearly not.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
slimjim wrote:
mayweather is easily the best boxer of my generation, I think a lot of you are suffering from some kind of nostalgic lapses regarding other fighters if you’re saying pbf ain’t top ten all-time RIGHT NOW. The fact that he’s never been in wars only serves to illuminate his level of talent.

I disagree. Since moving up to welterweight, he’s only fought one real welterweight (Baldomir). The rest have been blown up Junior welterweights that came up late in their careers (or never should have, like Hatton.)

He went to welter, then never fought the likes of Cotto, Mosley, and Margo, who have all fought each other. That hurts his legacy.[/quote]

That and doging Wright, Forrest etc… And are you guys forgetting the Split to DLH which many had DLH winning and the Judah fight. This guy has been in wars.

Hell, I left Tommy Hearns off. Anyone hear think that Floyd is really better than Tommy Hearns, and that the competition Floyd faced was anywhere near as stiff?

Even Freddie Roach picked Duran against his fighter Pacman.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
My top ten has Sugar Ray Robinson, Leonard, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, Joe Frazier, Marvin Hagler, Roberto Duran, Ali, Roy Jones, Archie Moore, maybe Marciano, maybe Willie Pep, Gene Tunney… I mean, hell, Floyd barely broke the top 50 in ESPN’s article in 2007. Has he REALLY done that much to make him jump 40 spots over the HUGE names mentioned here?

Clearly not.[/quote]

bleh, pound for pound and all time rankings are subjective. ESPN.com is the god of boxing fans