T Nation

HCG Use During Test Taper Protocol


#1

I just finished a 12 week cycle of 750mg sust/wk and 350mg/deca a week. during my cycle, i used 250ius hcg eod from about week 4 on. I know that you're not supposed to use hcg during the 4 to 6 week stasis period, but what about during the taper period? Can hcg be used then and if so, in what dose? Also, is it wise to take some time off after the 12 week statis/taper period or can one jump right back in with another cycle.


#2

I have wondered why you could not use a hCG taper rather than a test taper?

It seems to me that a hCG taper might offer an advantage - your testes are producing the testosterone and you are only inhibiting LH production to the same extent as a T taper. I have been thinking even harder about this after Bill Roberts confirmed that low dose hCG will/should allow recovery of LH production and low/normal testosterone levels at the same time?


#3

Well, if a SERM is being used, or if for ongoing use after recovery has been achieved, if estrogen levels are kept low-normal.

A moderate dose of HCG should have a suppressive effect equivalent to that from injecting an amount of testosterone that gives the same levels, I would think, and certainly not less.

But even 100 mg/week testosterone -- if nothing else is done -- is about 50% suppressive.

However I think that the majority of the suppressive effect is not from the added androgen level, but from increased estrogenic activity at the hypothalamus.

If such increase is avoided, then the added suppressive effect is probably slight.


#4

Pris always said the first additional 25mg was free but that suppression began after that. He also said 100mg could be used in conjunction with a SERM and most estrogen would be controlled enough to avoid suppressive effects


#5

bump


#6

What do you feel are the lowest levels of hCG in terms of iu per day that would induce any noticeable testosterone synthesis and secretion?


#7

Well, I've never thought about putting it that way. I consider the useful range as being 100-250 IU/day, which doesn't have to taken daily but the average should work out to this.

It's possible that for example 50 IU per day (100 IU every other day) might be noticeable -- I don't know -- for someone with low testosterone, but likely would not be sufficient to give as much improvement as ought to be obtained.


#8

I am considering trying this out as a recovery method.

500iu of hCG 2 - 3 times week on cycle
250iu EOD week 1 PCT
150iu EOD week 2 PCT
100iu EOD week 3 PCT
100iu x 2 in week 4 PCT

Nolva and clomid throughout


#9

Sorry for HIjack but its a little question.

My HCG says Intramuscular, should i use it under the skin no matter that?
I got no bacteriostatic water, but i got destiled water for injections, can i use it ?


#10

Whether to use IM or sub-Q is a matter of personal preference only.

The practical difference between using bacteriostatic water for dilution and sterile water is that one can have a little more confidence in longer term storage without necessarily quite as much care for cleanliness -- not that it really allows sloppiness either.

However if you keep the septum (stopper) clean between uses -- a nice technique is to wrap with aluminum foil, having the side that had been the inner side in the roll being the one touching the septum -- and wipe it thoroughly with a sterile alcohol wipe before each draw, then one can get away with non-bacteriostatic sterile water.

Well I'm not saying one can't get away without that degree of care either, but it's preferable to do it as compensation for the lack of the bacteriostatic agent.


#11

Very little difference between the two in terms of functionality. Bact water is about $5 online however so that should not be a big deal