HCG Not Working After Years of Nebido Rollercoaster

Pharma / TRT Testosterone Replacement
1

Hi guys. I have been reading this forum for a long time and now its time for my first post.
First i wanna say that you have a great community and i will appreciate all the answers i get.

My Story short. I am 38 year old male 186cm and 95 kg. I first found out that i have testosterone defiency in 2016. I had severe problems the with withdrawing SRNI Cymbalta ( I had eaten on\off ssri or SNRI for 10 years for panic attacks, but only the minimal dosage). But after i quit cymbalta in the spring if 2015 , severe problems occured about 6 months after). I had bad anxiety and depersolization for at least 6 months and i was hopeless. I stayed in my job and studies but life was hell on earth. I was still doing lots of sport and some gym also. But i was feeling so so bad. After many visits to the doctor with no help i found this guy in youtube, bignoknow.

After watching his story i demanded to be tested for low T. My results was:
TOTAL T 9,0 nmol\L SHGB 17 and Free T 178 pmo\l TSH 3,3 AND T4 16 (pmo\l) . I dont know was my low results because of severe anxiety or vice versa. But after lots of beggin i got an treatment. First i started with cream for a little time and then i was put on nebido 1000 mg\4 ml.

After the fist 3 injections ( first 4 weeks apart and third 7 weeks away from the second one) My results was Total S-Testo (sensitive) 30.7 SHGB 20 and Free T 572. And i thought i was doing fine with some sides but my depersolization etc was getting better. I felt my sexuality getting better etc. docter orderd Some anaztrozole cause i had redness and some anxiety. After that for more than 4 years i did nebido with enormous amounts of testing (always bloods for T before next injection pretty much) And estradiol now and then. The list is so long i wont put it here but Free test ranged from that peak 572 to the last test with nebido (26.11.20) 237 pmo\l .
E2 ranged from Peak 2016 whes starting TRT 0,24 nmol\l to 0,09 (26.11.20.) Normally being around 0,13 nmol\l . All the time my SHGB got lower ending at 19 nmol\l. At times it was even lover i recall even 14 nmol\l.

The injection period changed a lot. At first 8 weeks but sometimes 13 weeks. (that because my doctor thinks i dont need so much T at summer, i live in Finland and because i got some symptoms of e2)

And the problems: Well normally i got somekind of good feeling for 2-3 weeks after the injection after that i felt bad for sometime (no sex drive, delayed ejaculation, fatigue etc.) but sometimes it got better 6-7 weeks after injection. When i started my TRT my anxiety got better but as this ride got further my anxiety got back ( 2018 summer i started with 5 mg of escitalorpram) . I did sometimes the AI 0,25mg 3 times a week becouse i thought that the bad feeling 3-4 weeks after shots was cause of e2. The ai never felt good but maybe helped some with that delayed ejaculation).

But as time went by my sex drive went down, i think i lost sensitivy in my penis and that delayed ejaculation was a problen even before the SSRI. And dont get me wrong there has been some good good times, sometimes in 2017 i recall have the libido of my life for some time but it was always just for a short time. It was not a ED problem but a libido and delayed ejaculation with a weak orgasm etc. And i think normally 2 weeks after the shots was better and maybe the weeks 6-10 . But the weeks in the middle normally was really bad. I had a dull feeling like my head didint have any dopamine, like my head was on a cloud or something (and that was the same thing before the SSRI. my dose is super small) .

Sexuality problems with super weak ejaculation. Lots of snoring, extreme fatigue (sometimes the fatigue occured also at the end of injection cycle 9-13 weeks from injection). And i dont think that sometimes taking tha AI did any good, it changes mood and so on. But the fatigue and the “loss of dopamine” was the main devil. At those times i also had strangling feeling in my throat all the time. At times my fatigue and motivation was so lost that i even thought of quitting my good and respected job, i just didnt get any feeling from success. Like i was depressed.

So my theory is that becouse in so low in shgb was the nebido just too much at one time? The bad feeling i always got was because my levels went up and after the 3-4 weeks it dropped? My doctor thinks it was the e2 but it never was so high in the bloods (0,21 nmo\l highest with nebido). And all the time it felt like a rollecoaster. I had also anxiety but the minimum dose of ssri helped some with that, allthough i had some panic attacks. I would say i felt 2% of these 4 years really good , 25% ok and the rest was the fatigue, no dopamin feelings, and ejaculation problems with low low libido. So thats was the nebido ride really shortly.

I stopped nebido now. My last injection was at start of december and no i have been doing only HCG for about 1,5 months. (beocuse my doctor demand we test where is my own production). I inject 0,2ml ( i think thats 200ui) 2-3 times a week. And i dont feel too good. I have anxiety, i have lots of feeling of fear, libido is low. My bloods was: Free T 274 after 3 days from injecting. My doctor thinks thats good and wants me to remain on this . I stopped the SSRI in january becouse in wanted a boost in my sex life ( i got divorced and without sexual feelings its hard to meet new girls.) That didnt help too much and last days have been so bad i started it again today. I will try buspiron wtih the SSRI someday if the ejaculation doenst fix when i get my T problems solved.

When i inject the HCG i will get somekind of small lift in energy for 1 day after the injection. the day after that is depressing normally with insomnia etc. The day i inject i get this shaky woman like feeling with fears. The day i feel better the ejaculation prbblems is really really bad and i thinks that e2 issues of somekind. Last injection i did yesterday i took some anazrtosole 0,25 and that went really bad ending with panic attack ( thats why i started the ssri again). I dont even know why im on this HCG becouse i have no thoughts of having childs. I just wanna feel good, anxiety free with normal sex life and drive. My doctor is willing to try something else after this HCG nightmare . So my question is what would you recommend ? And should i stick with the only the HCG for a while ?
In Finland we only have Nebido in one size 1000mg\4ml , Sustanon, Testo creams, hcg (pregnyl). Im not sure is there any other products available.

And sorry for the long post, this has been a long time coming. Just with the divorce and everything is going on with anxiety i just had the energy to write the post. Im so eager to have my life and good feeling back. I will aprreciate any help you can give! I have lots of labs but its only total T , Free T , SHGB, and E2. Im hopefull becouse i’ve felt good at some points

2

You would benefit from a SERM therapy instead of just HCG. Don’t get me wrong, HCG is a very good drug and it does what it’s supposed to do very effectively. But the negative feedback loop that makes your natural hormone system work is still not running on its own as long as you’re using HCG. Tamoxifen or enclomiphene would be better choices for you. They’ll help bring your natural production back online (though given how low you were before you might not feel much better).

As far as your Nebido roller coaster, you experience is typical. The drug is almost always administered the way you describe and it’s an absolute disaster for most guys. There’s no rhyme or reason to the dosing protocol when you investigate how half-lives work and the impact hormone fluctuations have on an otherwise healthy man.

3

Thanks for your reply ! SERM’s is a new thing for me , are the like AI’s ? I got this anaztrozole but i think my e2 is pretty low at 0,05. If my normal production wont start or stay under 300 free T do you think is should resume TRT ? My goal is just to feel good, and i have an insurance which covers any TRT protcol, In case i would resume, what kind of protocol would you recommend considering i have pretty low SHGB and the reaction to nebido was pretty much not a good one? Do you think my problems with nebido was because of e2 or the dropping levels ? Sorry for so many question, i really respect if you have the time to answer!

4

And should i start some T with HCG. Im ok with the idea of doing TRT my whole life, just wanna feel good.

5

And just for info am i totally healthy sporty man ( only the anxiety and panic problem). I think the cymbalta just really fucked me up.

6

There’s a tough reality that you will unfortunately have to face, and it’s unrelated to you or anything you’ve done. Nebido is not special in any way. It’s just testosterone attached to a long ester. But in order for it to be different (read: patentable by a pharma company) it needed to have something about it that made it different than the very cheap, very available other forms out there. So the dosing protocol is the thing that changes regular testosterone undecanoate into “Nebido”. And that dosing schedule is unbelievably stupid. Nobody with any background in the most basic corner of chemistry or endocrinology would find it to be appropriate. Seriously, here’s what 30 weeks of Nebido on your schedule looks like:

image
image1125×1176 82 KB

Those huge peaks and troughs are no good. They’re a recipe for feeing like shit. Compare that to Nebido—same drug—used differently:

image
image1125×1203 101 KB

That’s a 500mg loading dose and then four weeks later you begin 200mg every two weeks. Notice that the peak to trough is less severe and the total change from high to low is a narrower margin. That’s how Nedibo should be used.

If you go back on trt and use the same old drug with the same old protocol expect the same old results.

Now, as far as SERMs are concerned, no they are not like an AI. Different class, different MOA, different results. Read up on them (too much detail for me to explain on my own).

You can use HCG at any time when you’re on trt. I am a firm believer in it because it keeps the testes functioning, albeit at a low level, and that has positive downstream effects that you cannot replicate with testosterone alone.

7

Great info :+1:

8

Thank again Yuppie! that is very usefull info and i wont go in to that protocol ever again.

So I have 2 problems. do you think i should continue only with HCG or SERM ( if serm is available in Finland). I dont feel too good on HCG , no libido, depression , no apetite, loss of weight etc. The dosage is 200ui 2-3 times a week. Or Should i demand going back to TRT. That would be my choice, but im worried would if tha willt be a good idea and can i get back feeling good. Or should i just try this regimen and suffer ? AND im so happy that now i understand why i felt like shit so many many times. im sure my e2 and everything was all over the place.

Second one is that Nebido is only available 4ml\1000mg. Is it possible to store it after you have opened the 4ml bottle? Should i do HCG with it ? And we also have sustanon 250ml \ 1mg. Can you dose that in some way that you will have flat levels? I can also use HCG with it. My insurance covers everyhing so money isnt the problem.

Just for bonus question have somebody used or heard about buspiron in treatment for delayd ejaculation , and libido problems ?

@iron_yuppie I really respect that you spend your on time answering to somebody across the planet. I started to get hopeless that i wont ever feel good and have a great libido again. Now i have hope.