Am about to begin on a “restart attempt” using the HTPA Restart sticky here. Will be using HCG 250 injections for 4-6 weeks followed by Nolvadex for 4-6 weeks (switched to Clomid because I read numerous studies on Nolvadex and its association with damaging liver cells leading to cancers in mice at high doses. Study is referenced in a post below. This same effect was not seen in another SERM called toremifene. But this stuff costs $1,000 for a month supply, unless you get it online from some “recognized” sources, which strangely has it for $60 … so I called BS on that, and decided to go with Clomid, which also has some risks, but less than Tamoxifen (Nolvadex).
Syringes I was given come pre-loaded with 250. I typically need 1/4 to 1/2 the dose of most guys. I was thinking of starting with 50, then 100, then 150. Is there some way I can keep the unused HCG, rather than throw it away every day? I know I shouldn’t re-use the needles. But I’m not sure how to retain the leftover liquid and use it later. Any suggestions appreciated.
The sticky suggests testing E2 at the 4-6 week mark. But it also says to monitor E2 and use an AI. Should the AI just be used from day 1 with the assumption that it will be needed? Or do you wait until the first tests at 4-6 weeks and then take it if the numbers suggest to?
Should I taper off the Androgel 1.62 first, or should I just go cold turkey and start injecting the HCG?
I have a feeling 250 is going to be too much for me, and I anticipate my T levels going very high. Have read several accounts about this dose pushing guys near 1,000. Is the goal to get T levels as high as possible for the whole 4-6 weeks, as part of effectively ‘restarting’ ? Or is getting T levels in the 500-600 range just as effective for restart purposes?
You can inject partly, swab the needle with an alcohol prep pad, recap and return to refrigeration.
Depends on your prior history that we do not have here. The idea is to keep E2 favorable.
Take hCG for a while before stopping T if quantity allows. This will reduce a T level crash. Best to have testes recover form and function.
hCG is to get functioning. We do not see guys with low T getting high T on suggested dose.
After testes are working, you transfer to SERM to get the HPTA to make LH/FSH and stop hCG, then taper off of SERM later with some AI to keep E2 out of the way.
Stopped Androgel 1.62 after a couple hCG injections.
The transition was extremely smooth. No drop off, no depression, no drastic changes. HCG kicked in pretty quickly, and now 7 days in I can absolutely feel my natural production of Testosterone working again. Its difficult to explain the different sensation, but it feels like “me” again. Whereas Androgel feels like something external. The libido on Androgel is more of an “agitation” that “needs to be taken care of”. The libido on HCG feels more like the libido I had back in college.
I did develop a swollen finger that has stayed swollen, and somewhat painful, but I have no idea if that is HCG related or not. I really do feel good and its amazing having my natural libido back for once.
Experiencing joint pain pretty much all over my body. Also swollen middle finger. Don’t think I can continue another 5.5 weeks if this doesn’t clear up. Painful to type this. Painful to shower. Painful to wring out my washcloth. Torture to work out. Disclaimer: I have a lot of other strange undiagnosed health issues right now so I would not automatically assume that joint pain = HCG. She also has B12 in the injections and I was taking it supplementally so maybe overdosing on b12? Hard to know.
@KSman - your tutorial says every other day injections. My doctor said “He means Monday, Weds, Friday”. Did you mean Mon Weds Fri or every other day?
EOD is a two week cycle and may not be as easy for some guys. Fixed days of the week are simple. Either will work OK. I like EOD for hCG and anastrozole [when needed] because it fits the half-life very well.
Thanks. Total of 12 weeks seemed really long if you end up dealing with side effects. My estrogen has definitely tanked from this. I can feel it. Not the norm guys - HCG usually causes estrogen to rise. Im a freak of nature. Will be getting Estrogen and T tested here in a bit…
All testosterone can aromatize, it does not mater where it comes from.
Ideally, you do E2 labs and manage with anastrozole.
If hCG or Nolvadex dose is too high, T–>E2 inside the testes can be high and anastrozole cannot control that there.
12 weeks is too long, interim labs will tell you where you are going. 6-8 weeks might be enough. But testes need to be physically recovered with Nolvadex or hCG then Nolvadex.
You should be using anastrozole during the restart and land on a lower dose to cruise afterwards to provide protection from estrogen rebound.
Even though we have reason to believe my estrogen is tanking right now? (see above) My problem clearly is that I am not aromatizing my T into E. Well, one of my problems.
Hm. I’ve been lower on Estrogen before and don’t recall such severe joint pain. The swelling in the fingers is a noted side effect of HCG for some people (rare). Diagnosed with Inflammatory Tenosynovitis, but my mom had scleroderma so I may be dealing with some flareup related to that. If the swelling stops once I finish HCG, I’ll know. Still no idea why my estrogen went down on HCG. Supposed to go up.
Your E2 levels are the balance of T–>E2 aromatization and clearance of E2 by the liver.
T+SHBG does not aromatize. Hard to expect that liver is clearing E2 to cause this.
If SHBG was high, TT could be exaggerated and FT levels might be quite low.
So that is the guessing game.
Transdermal T has the highest T–>E2 potential. If a higher strength T cream is applied to a smaller skin area, E2 levels are lower. Perhaps you need a combination delivery. But that is not a path to a restart.
