T Nation

HCG Monotherapy?


#1

I want to get your guys thoughts as I keep seeing that HCG alone seems to have shitty side effect, feeling funky etc. My doc wants me to go on full TRT from the get go but mentioned we could start with just HCG and see where that puts my T counts. 30 years old so maybe young enough to restart my system? I have had 4 mediocore panels ran and all came back with my total T right around 250 each time. Question, will just HCG for 6 weeks be a good starting point?

als Provider Comment
01/19/2017 11:51 AM TESTOSTERONE 108.1 ng/dL L 241 - 827
01/05/2017 5:59 PM HCT 45.8 % N 37.0 - 51.0
01/05/2017 5:59 PM HGB 15.1 gm/dl N 13.5 - 17.5
01/05/2017 5:59 PM LYMPH# 2.3 K/cumm
01/05/2017 5:59 PM LYMPH% 33.3 %
01/05/2017 5:59 PM MCH 29.0 uugm N 26 - 32
01/05/2017 5:59 PM MCHC 33.0 gm/dL N 32 - 36
01/05/2017 5:59 PM MCV 88.1 fL N 80 - 97
01/05/2017 5:59 PM MONO# 0.7 10-9/L
01/05/2017 5:59 PM MONO% 9.6 % N 0 - 10
01/05/2017 5:59 PM NEUT# 3.9 K/cumm N 2.4 - 8.1
01/05/2017 5:59 PM NEUT% 57.1 % N 50 - 75
01/05/2017 5:59 PM PLATELETS 328 K/cumm N 140 - 440
01/05/2017 5:59 PM RBC 5.20 M/cumm N 4.20 - 6.30
01/05/2017 5:59 PM RDW 12.7 % N 11.5 - 14.5
01/05/2017 6:23 PM T4 FREE 1.59 ng/dL N 0.61 - 1.76
01/05/2017 6:24 PM TESTOSTERONE 71.31 ng/dL L 241 - 827
01/05/2017 6:23 PM TSH 1.02 uIU/L N 0.4 - 6.0
01/05/2017 5:59 PM WBC 6.9 K/cumm N 4.1 - 10.9


#2

You have created 4 different threads for your issues and that is unworkable. We need your case in one place.

I should review 3 prior threads to see what you posted and how you have responded to suggestions and suggested reading. Not going to happen.

Go back to a thread were I took the time to provide advice and respond to that.

HCG monotherapy has been discussed before. Try searching.
It cannot work if your testes do not work. Works best with younger males.
Doses need to be small, large doses create problems.


#3

Thanks for the note. I thought all my threads went into one, my bad. T


#4

Doc says my tests are not the issue and HCG might kick start my pit gland to reset my natural flow. I am looking at others mono HCG treads, thanks for the tip. Figured i would bounce it off you as obviously you’re the go to. Thanks brotha

prolactin- 23.5H
Estradiol- 9.9
FSH- 5.0
LH- 7.1
Free T(direct) 4.4H
Total T 262.


#5

where do i find the stickies? I’m retarded


#6

I posted similar in your earlier threads.

Where are your earlier threads? Click on your name in one of your posts and you will find.

Please read the stickies found here: About the T Replacement Category

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc

Evaluate your overall thyroid function by checking oral body temperatures as per the thyroid basics sticky. Thyroid hormone fT3 is what gets the job done and it regulates mitochondrial activity, the source of ATP which is the universal currency of cellular energy. This is part of the body’s temperature control loop. This can get messed up if you are iodine deficient. In many countries, you need to be using iodized salt. Other countries add iodine to dairy or bread.


#7

question for you. Do you think hormonal imbalances caused by alcohol abuse are recoverable? I feel like I am living on the net lately, with enough due diligence to get certified somewhere at this point. I am starting to put the pieces together “i think” and obviously wanted to your opinion. You know my story and I am sure are already pissed by my many different threads. One thing i never mentioned was that i have had a pretty solid alcohol problem for 8 or so years. I was drinking nightly from 22 to now 30, quit 3 months ago. I now understand that not only can that tank your T but cause damage to all the endocrine system. So the way i get it is the constant boozing inhibits the testes to work functionally and raises E as well. My question is now being sober 3 months, will things start to restore themselves naturally? As i mentioned i am going to cycle HCG for 6 weeks to try and get my testes to start the natural process again and after research on booze think this might be a great protocol to get the ball rolling in the right direction. My LH and FSH do not indicate a problem with the pituitary so I think this might be a great option to get my T back up naturally and the ball rolling all across all hormones. What do you think? Appreciate your time brother and look forward to your thoughts, thanks.

J


#8

@KSman


#9

As your LH/FSH are good, there does not seem to be any point with any options in the HPTA restart sticky which is oriented towards secondary hypogonadism [low LH/FSH]. hCG will reduce and replace your LH, so what will be gained? You should not use more than 250-300iu SC EOD. hCG might be pointless.

The liver is good at regeneration. But that requires that it be rebuild and that takes time. The liver clears estrogens from the blood.

I can’t read your lab work without lab ranges.

You do not have any thyroid/iodine/temperature issues?


#10

@KSman its funny you say that because i am leaning towards thyroid problem now. I am going to do the temp sticky. I can’t get out of bed to save my life, beyond tired no matter how much sleep i get. I still get a very decent erection, libido is still there and i can’t gain weight to save my life. So bail the HCG treatment? I haven’t started yet as i really don’t thing my low T is the problem here. Can your thyroid tank your T? I did notice since i am trying to quit chewing tobacco and chewing a lot of sunflower seeds seems to help with my mood and energy. Iodine from the seeds? going to chase the thyroid claim. Just out of curiosity. How are you so well knowledgable on all these matters? Endo?

also, what is 250-300iu SC EOD?


#11

Most docs are really bad at this. Endo’s seem to do and say things that make them as a group - worst.

I can’t see that hCG will be helpful.

Are your testes small and soft? That implies that the testes are not responding to the LH you have. We know that they are not producing T.

Lab ranges please:
prolactin- 23.5H
Estradiol- 9.9
FSH- 5.0
LH- 7.1
Free T(direct) 4.4H
Total T 262


#12

250-300iu hCG SC EOD

Labs: - fill in the blanks
TT
FT
E2
LH/FSH
CBC
AST/ALT
fasting glucose
fasting cholesterol
prolactin
DHEA-S
IGF-1
AM cortisol, at 8AM please

  • if body temps are low
  • TSH
  • fT3 <-- the active hormone
  • fT4

Is your diet a mess?
Do you take any supplements?


#13

@KSman the fucked part is they ran that lab test as a female so the ranges were way off. I knew something was up when the front desk girl called me and said my T was too high.


#14

@KSman my diet is pretty shit at the moment to be honest. A ton of take out from long hours at work. No supplements, i am going to start a once daily mens though that i just got.

I looked up lab corps ranges.

Total 348-1197
estradiol -Adult male: 7.6−42.6 pg/mL
Free T- 1.5 - 3.2
Prolactin 4.0-15.2 ( i was super nervous at time of draw and heard that can raise it a bit)
LH_1.7-8.6
FSH_1.5-12.4

Previous Labs

01/19/2017 11:51 AM TESTOSTERONE 108.1 ng/dL L 241 - 827
01/05/2017 5:59 PM HCT 45.8 % N 37.0 - 51.0
01/05/2017 5:59 PM HGB 15.1 gm/dl N 13.5 - 17.5
01/05/2017 5:59 PM LYMPH# 2.3 K/cumm
01/05/2017 5:59 PM LYMPH% 33.3 %
01/05/2017 5:59 PM MCH 29.0 uugm N 26 - 32
01/05/2017 5:59 PM MCHC 33.0 gm/dL N 32 - 36
01/05/2017 5:59 PM MCV 88.1 fL N 80 - 97
01/05/2017 5:59 PM MONO# 0.7 10-9/L
01/05/2017 5:59 PM MONO% 9.6 % N 0 - 10
01/05/2017 5:59 PM NEUT# 3.9 K/cumm N 2.4 - 8.1
01/05/2017 5:59 PM NEUT% 57.1 % N 50 - 75
01/05/2017 5:59 PM PLATELETS 328 K/cumm N 140 - 440
01/05/2017 5:59 PM RBC 5.20 M/cumm N 4.20 - 6.30
01/05/2017 5:59 PM RDW 12.7 % N 11.5 - 14.5
01/05/2017 6:23 PM T4 FREE 1.59 ng/dL N 0.61 - 1.76
01/05/2017 6:24 PM TESTOSTERONE 71.31 ng/dL L 241 - 827 (Lab error)
01/05/2017 6:23 PM TSH 1.02 uIU/L N 0.4 - 6.0
01/05/2017 5:59 PM WBC 6.9 K/cumm N 4.1 - 10.9

Appreciate ya brother.

I will get the other labs shortly


#15

Hey bro - a few observations:

  • your LH/FSH are great -so we know your pituitary is pumping out the hormones to make T. so your problem is not there.

-You have very low T and Free T - given the above, your testicles are not producing enough testosterone. And, by the way - this is common in heavy drinkers. Ethyl alcohol is toxic to the testes. A few drinks here and there, or even one or two per night, won’t matter that much - but drinking heavy for years is bound to cause issues.

  • for startners, Get some Liv52 pills which are proven to help with the liver and cut down the drinking (easier said than done, I’m sure).

  • the HCG should help you however, you will effectively be shutting down your pituitary (so the LH/FSH are going to be nill after a few weeks). But so what - you need to get the balls working again.

  • Run the HCG and use a low dose AI. Better yet - add a bit of Androgel or other exogenous Test with it as people feel better with the combination.

  • After a few weeks, get labs and assess. If T is back up and you are feeling good, you will need to ‘restart’ your HPTA by running Clomid or Nolvadex (Refer to HPTA Restart Sticky) if you want to try to get back on your own. Otherwise you can just stay on TRT.

  • make sure you are doctor supervised.

  • Also, post the other labs when you can.


#16

@jimgainz thanks for the note. What do you think that the possibility is with my T going back up after no more drinking? I have looked at all the labs I’ve had and a majority all i have gotten is just my total T and its ranged from 108 to 310 over 4 tests. Not sure how it could vary that much and the 303 was right when i quit drinking. Almost like its going down since i stop boozing. So HCG for 6 weeks like the doc recommended? Whats the likely hood of running that with a low AI and the a restart and my body just jumping back on track? The only reason i am hesitant to start the HCG its i have heard that starting either that or TRT can give you anxiety with E2 spikes. I have ridiculous anxiety as it is, probably from low T in the first place? I am going this week to get the full labs @KSman requested. Any advice is always appreciated.


#17

An HPTA restart is highly variable and dependent on many factors - age being one of them. I attempted one myself but couldn’t get my Total T over 425 naturally - whereas HCG (500 IU EOD) had me up to nearly 1,000 ng/dl - but I’m 50 y/o. Nevertheless, it’s an option you must try and the results will determine if you recover or need to stay on TRT.

Regarding anxiety on HCG - I wouldn’t worry - much more likely to have anxiety from low T as you pointed out. I just added some to my protocol and feel better than ever


#18

Also - check out Liv52 (called LiverCare in the states). This stuff is no joke – and was specifically designed to help protect against liver diseases I’ve read some reviews of people who have liver damage from alcohol abuse – it seemed to help.

Also – there’s an old bodybuilder technique of using 3 g of both inositol and choline for a month or so – to help alleviate fatty liver.

Make sure you do your own research on this, before taking anything – but I would definitely try to take some liver support given your circumstance.


#19

thanks for the note my friend. I am going to get a full lab draw up tomorrow and will post as well.


#20

@KSman any thoughts?