T Nation

HCG in PCT


#1

Hi guys,

I know Hcg is supressive and following the great advise given on ths site i use it durng cycle only.

But studying forums contnuously i see many of them statng hcg in pct to get your balls restarted. On this site however people are always told your too late for hcg if you're startng pct.

So i've been thinking, if youre shut down fully, wouldnt hcg for a week or two during pct be better than none as other sites state. Or since its supressive say cruise at 100mg ot test for a couple weeks and use the hcg during these weeks. Wouldnt that be better than serm only?

Opinions?


#2

If one decided they didnt want to use it during cycle I'd recommend using it in the weeks before PCT starts, when using medium-long esters. I dont see a reason to use it in conjuction with the SERM other than if the cycle was planned poorly.


#3

Yes, generally use during PCT would be called for on account of bad planning rather than being an as-a-rule good idea.

To some extent though I suppose this is another one of those things where a course-correction winds up being in some cases a slight overcorrection.

Way back when, the standard or perhaps universal thing was to use HCG post-cycle. Part of the reason for not using it during cycles was the atrocious dosing method used: typically 5000 IU at a time.

At the same time as correcting the dosing, I said to use the opposite approach and use the HCG during the cycle to maintain testicular function, rather than losing it (or having it reduced) and then having to overcome that obstacle as well as having to recover hypothalamic and pituitary function at the same time. And I pointed out that HCG adds to suppression to some extent at that time as well. This is true.

And it's true that doing cycles the way that I have recommended to do them ordinarily results in recovery that does not give a miserable period of low androgen levels and having to struggle back up from there.

However, many users still choose to do things where, quite predictably, they find themselves with awful T levels post cycle for some period of time.

If that is the case, then yes, moderate dose HCG use can keep T levels normal but not so high as to make recovery of LH production impossible, particularly where a SERM is used.


#4

excellent info and insight. would the use of hcg. on cycle be necessary at all. even if there is no noticeable shrinkage. if your testicles don't shrink. does that indicate, quicker and better recovery?


#5

What sort of dose of hCG would allow this to occur? Thanks


#6

(Below I refer to per-day dosing, but dosing does not have to be daily. If wanting to use other protocols such as every other day or 3x per week, simply multiply by 2 for the former, or about 2.33 for the latter. Numbers can be rounded to convenient values.)

I now consider the useful range of HCG use to be 100-250 IU per day, with it being questionable as to whether 250 IU/day gives anything more than 200 IU/day.

The low end of that range is usually sufficient for mid-normal testosterone levels. The high end can well produce supraphysiological levels.

So I recommend staying at the lower end, such as 100-125 IU/day, where there is a need also for LH production to recover.


#7

Thank you


#8

Sounds just about right where I've always heard it. 250IU EOD or even E3D is the protocol I use when I use it. Just be mindful anyone who is new to HCG chances of getting gyno increase significantly


#9

Thats my point, with poor planning.

Say this newbie completed his cycle and said right i read anabolics 2009, i have my hcg, nolva and clomid here, how do i take them?

Would be be best to say drop the hcg? or just it with pct? or shoot maybe 100mg/week test and use it durng this week/2weeks?


#10

From the adding-suppression standpoint it will be about the same to use HCG at the 100 IU/day level vs continuing testosterone use past the end of the cycle, at 100 mg/week.

I would prefer the first approach, of these two.

As to whether either of these should be done, it would depend on the cycle. If it was an 8 week cycle, without Deca, and there was no noticeable testicular shrinkage, I would use neither. If it was some idiot 14 week cycle or what-have-you, then I'd say use the HCG.