T Nation

hCG Dosing Frequency Consensus


#1

From what I can tell, most here use hCG along with TRT as do I. Currently I do 250iu EOD.

However, I’ve read here and elsewhere of people doing it far less frequently than EOD. Given that the half-life of hCG is about ~30 hours, EOD seems perfect in theory. But I’ve seen people say they do it as little as twice a week and are happy with that. Of course I don’t know all the details of what they’re “happy” with.

On the other hand EOD is beginning to become a bit tedious. I was think of trying 3 days a week. twice on my normal TRT injection days, and one other day (like Sun, Wed, Fri), so as to at least have a regular schedule.

So I just wanted to get a consensus on how much everyone is doing and how often, and results?


#2

I would like to hear what others have to say as well because I do 250I.U EOD sub Q along with my TRT and was wondering if I did it less will it increase my chance of becoming infertile because I am under the belief that HCG is what keeps you fertile while on TRT


#3

I’m even more interested now because I just got new lab results back and I’d like to adjust my overall protocol, but I don’t want to adjust my testosterone dose and hCG dose at the same time. Rather I’d like to do one at a time so as to be able to keep track of what is resulting in what.

As is stands, my E2 is above where I’d like it. Nothing crazy, only 29 pg/ml, but I’d like to get that down a tad and also reduce me testosterone number a bit. So I’m unsure as which to adjust first. And I’m thinking either way, maybe I should remain at EOD for the hCG so as to keep consistent levels while watching for changes.

Which brings up something else. If I keep it at EOD, how much lower should I go from the 250iu per dose?


#4

There are two hormonal components that drive fertility, permitting other systems are functioning correctly; FSH and LH. hCG increases the chance of maintaining fertility in that it mimics LH only. LH is enough to maintain testicle size and the majority of function, but they can’t be 100% since FSH will be missing. There are other drugs besides hCG which contain FSH as well, but they’re very expensive and probably difficult to obtain.

There are a handful of studies that show men on TRT while taking nolvadex become more fertile than even pre-trt. Nolvadex works as a SERM or selective estrogen receptor modulator, by blocking estrogen receptors, preventing estrogen from binding at sites in the pituitary & hypothalamus, which triggers our brains to produce FSH and LH. Estrogen receptors are also blocked in chest/breast tissue.

Nolvadex can be found via research chemical websites online.

I began dabbling with it over hCG because hCG has strong estrogen side effects for me at low doses, even as low as 125 iu’s twice per week.

Unfortunately, nolvadex has side effects too. Seemingly the most common in men being eye issues, decrease in libido, potentially emotional issues.


#5

What’s your current protocol regarding T dose + AI (if applicable)? I already know your hcg dose. Do you know what your blood work looks like at your current protocol besides your e2?


#6

Interesting @Hostile …I was at 150mg testosterone with 1.5mg arimidex. Also, 250iu hCG EOD.

I am currently lowering that to 140mg T while keeping arimidex at 1.5mg, and 200iu hCG EOD.

I have decided to lower both at the same time because I’m also worried about my hematocrit which has spiked to 54 despite me having higher free T number in the past. I wonder if it’s a “one-off” anomaly?..

I did have to take labs a day earlier than I wanted to (due to scheduling), so numbers are likely higher than otherwise would have been.

Either way, I’ve done 140mg/1.5mg in the past with great results, but one day out of the blue levels dropped out, so I went to 150mg. But previously I wasn’t on hCG, So I wondering if the extra E2 is coming from that as well as the total testosterone rise (free remained relatively stable).


#7

I should mention I have a brand new TRT doc (my old one died unexpectedly)…and when I mentioned being on hCG, he kinda raised an eyebrow and asked, “Continuously without any breaks?”

I have since wondered…can continuous hCG use cause pituitary atrophy? Or atrophy anywhere in the feedback loop? Would it be good to occasionally stop and do some nolvadex?


#8

I’ll scan and post them but I’m getting ready for work at the moment. I’ll post those tomorrow…


#9

Taking a break comes from the body build community do to super physiological doses, TRT has to do with therapeutic replacememts doses of T at natural levels.


#10

The doc was inquiring about the hCG, not the testosterone…or do bodybuilders use massive doses of hCG too?


#11

No they don’t.

I’m intrigued too by this comment. I doubt it’d cause any pituitary suppression as the pituitary has already ceased producing LH in response to the TRT. Some sort of testicular damage, however, I may see being a possibility long term?


#12

Okay latest labs:

Total T: 2043 ng/dl

Free T: 318 pg/ml

E2: 29 pg/ml

PSA: 0.68 ng/ml

THS (cent): 1.56 uIU/ml (0.27-4.2)

T4 free (cent): 1.9 ng/dl (0.9-2.1)

T3 total (cent): 131 ng/dl (80-200)

Vitamin D, 1, 25, (OH) 2: 50 pg/ml

My free T numbers have been higher in the past (despite a lower total T) and with lower doses of testosterone. At that time also, my E2 was at 21.

I am assuming that the hGC is causing these changes and I have since lowered my T dose to 120mg/week(from 150) and 200iu of hGC EOD (from 250).

We’ll see what happens. I’d also be interested in @KSman opinion on the thyroid numbers…


#13

Holy crap those Total T numbers are high. You’re looking to half that, as running at 2K permanently is not healthy.

HCG will not affect Free T levels in that way. Get your SHBG levels checked for a better picture.


#14

Yeah @gerstlaeur I’m pretty sure the high total T and high E2 is the result of the hCG (because I’ve had better free T and E2 numbers with lower total T before).

However, despite this, I’ve since cut my testosterone dose to 120mg (from 150mg) and lowered my hCG to 200iu (from 250iu).

I’m guessing that since the hCG causes an increase in both testosterone and E2 completely uninfluenced by a-dex, that my total number increased (without a corresponding increase in free T), and E2 went up as well.

Along with the 120mg testosterone, I’m taking 1.25mg a-dex. So hopefully the lowered hCG will ease off on my total T and E2, and my lowering of T dosage will bring things down overall…though I’m hoping to keep a nice free T number. We’ll see in a couple of months.

That brings me to another question/observation…

I have two friends also on TRT. One of them cannot get his total T above 700 despite takeing the max dose of 200mg T (and his free T is mediocre as well. But his E2 is 21, so there’s no room for adjusting his a-dex).

The other guy has a total T of 1300 (only a little over the high end range) yet has free T in the 400’s.

Why do people have such drastically different results with similar dosages? The guy with the 400+ free T also has zero problems with DHT or any other markers. It got me to thinking that problems arise when total T is high but not when free T is high. Does anyone know if this is the case?


#15

For the same reason every tree bark has a different pattern, genetic diversity.


#16

I just started my TRT and the doc has me doing HCG two times a week at the time of my T injections.

So I am interested in this topic as well. Was thinking about doin it EOD as well, but am going to wait and see how things progress as is for now.


#17

What I have found since starting this thread is that 250iu EOD is the way to go. It’s not the most convenient thing in the world, but it delivers the best possible results.


#18

When you say best results, is it that it just makes you feel more linear? Less ups and downs?

I have high SHBG (70+) so just trying to figure out what is going to work best for me.


#19

By best results, I mean attaining what felt most natural and “normal”. Normal sex drive, normal testicular size, no testicular aches, etc…and yes, very smooth and linear. I experimented with both higher and lower doses with differing frequency of administration. Nothing I did resulted as good as 250iu EOD.

I have labs coming up in a month which will also have SHBG, so we can partially use that as a gauge of my results.


#20

I will be following this thread and look forward to hearing your update.

I literally just started TRT this week and will be taking my next injections in a couple of days.
Right now the doc has me taking .40 of T and 500 of HCG on the same days.

So this is all a new “adventure” for me.