No. If testosterone caused anxiety, then all young men would be more anxiety prone than females which isn’t seen. Hcg is not indigenous to our physiology. Testosterone is. Get on TRT or don’t, but get off of the hcg.
Hostile thank you for your advise and sharing your experience. I am NOT going to get another injection of HCG!!!
I am now just trying to decide if I am going to try testosterone. In your opinion do my lab numbers indicate that i need it? I know the ranges don’t really matter but are any of the levels way off? I never had my blood checked before because i never needed to so i have nothing to compare these with. I have always been extremely active my whole life and now at age 46 im really really slowing down. I don’t want to start Testosterone if i don’t need to but i need to find out what has gotten me so tired all the time.
Your Free T is hovering near the bottom of the ranges, I see men coming in here complain of symptoms in the middle ranges. Your labs are typical of what we see here at T-nation, middle range Total T, slightly higher than midrange SHBG levels and Free T levels close to rock bottom.
If you’re a guy who hyper metabolizes testosterone, well these men need Free T to be at the top of the ranges to see symptoms relief. I’m one of those men. Middle range Free T and I feel dead.
An educated guess is your SHBG is very sticky, meaning it holds onto more testosterone than the next guy and this is bad news for Free T.
A lot more labs would be useful. I wish I had attempted more before I started trt 5 years ago.
For starters, I would go tinfoil hat with health regarding my diet and environment; everything within my control. Avoid all plastics, install a reverse osmosis filtration system with a mineral cartridge to readd in the removed minerals from your tap water.
Eat plenty of fat from meat, nuts, butter, olive oil, coconut oil etc. Sex hormones are derived from pregnenalone, which is created from cholesterol, which is created from the fat we eat.
Stop eating fast food and avoid sugar.
Attack inflammation as much as you can. Start taking 5000 ius of vitamin d3 along with k3 to prevent calcification. Take fish oil, curcumin, resveratrol (the 3 brands on this site are excellent). NAC is great for liver and respiratory health. I also take 20 mgs of vinpocetine, 3 times per day with food. It’s a cheap and great brain health supplement that increases blood brain flow while reducing systemic blood pressure.
Get your gut health as optimal as possible. Start with 1 teaspoon of baking soda in water per day. You’ll likely need to purchase the liquid flavoring from this website as well. It tastes horrible. Also be sure to eat 1/4 cup of fermented vegetables per day. I like sauerkraut. Make sure it’s in the refrigerated isle in a healthfood store. If you get it from a standard grocery store in the room temp isle, it may not be fermented or all the bacteria may be dead.
It may be worth also getting a food allergy test.
I’d also avoid wheat, not because of gluten but because of what glyphosate on most wheat products does to our gut microbiome. I like to stick to white rice, potatoes, quinoa and veggies for carbs.
Thank you for your replies. I am finally feeling better or back to how i felt before the HCG injections. Those two little injections sure messed me up.
Systemlord what you are saying about the low free T numbers and the SHBG make sense. I am honestly still shocked at how the HCG make me feel…I never want to have the high anxiety feeling again and as far as the panic attacks, or whatever they were, if there is a chance of that happening on T i don’t want anything to do with it.
Hostile thank you for all the information. I do not have a so called bad diet i just dont eat enough. No breakfast, maybe a protein bar or two for lunch, and then i eat a good dinner. I try to keep sugar low but drink too much coffee and no alcohol. I had a head injury about 22 years ago and it caused me to have no, or very limited, smell and taste and i haven’t eaten large quantities since then. I will try and do better with that. I also do not sleep well … probably 4:30 to 5:00 hours a night. I have tried to improve that but with 2 extremely active kids and being on 24 hr call its just not going to get better anytime soon.
I am still undecided on moving forward with the Testosterone. I know it is just a part of a healthier lifestyle and i am more then willing to put in the work but to be completely honest after the HCG i am scared. Well that’s kind of hard to admit but there it is!
I have seen a lot of guys respond negatively to HCG, anxiety and deteriorating mood are common. When you start TRT it does take time for your body to adapt to TRT, so you may not feel your best for a couple of weeks, in my experience TRT has made me calmer and has gotten rid of the anxiety I experienced when testosterone was low.
If you start out on a high dosage of testosterone, the chances are greater that you will experience anxiety do to excess estrogen production, I recommended starting out on a lower to moderate dosages slowly increasing it over time.
I think too many guys start out too high on dosing and never get the opportunity to experience levels in the middle ranges, sometimes I hear of guys trying it out years later and wish they had attempted it sooner.
If you ever want more kids there’s always FSH injections which tends to be more effective than HCG.
I’ve suffered head injuries too which are linked to hormonal problems since they can interfere with our hpta axis, specifically our hypothalamus and pituitary. Have you done any research on TBI?
I have not done any research on TBI but i figured it was so long ago if something was wrong I would have noticed before now. I could be wrong though the brain does weird things.
It may be worth looking into. Tbi can cause low T for the rest of ones life.
I have mentioned it to several doctors and they didn’t seem concerned about it, probably because it was so long ago. I had spinal meningitis in my 20’s as well as the head injury that caused me to loose my smell and taste (mostly). They did an mri of my head and all they said was that the front of my brain was bruised and skull cracked. They just said i would be dizzy for quite a while and that my smell and taste would probably not come back.
I know starting testosterone is not going to just magically make everything great. What happens in the first few months? Do you feel anxious and have bad attacks that put you down for days? Are you all amped up and can’t sleep? I guess what is really scaring me is that on the HCG it was horrible but started going away in +/- 2 days. Totally seemed gone 4-5 days later. On the testosterone shot it could stay around for a week or more before starting to wear off if i react bad to it. I also wanted to ask why its a life long decision? If you are on it for say 10 months to a year and decide to stop can’t you use some other medicines to start your own testosterone production and return to where you were before you began the treatment?
Most of this topic isn’t well known by average medical professionals. There are Dr’s who recognize head injuries being related to hormonal issues, most notably Dr Mark Gordon. If you search for TBI Dr Mark Gordon on Youtube, you can watch some of his lectures.
I also feel horrible when taking hcg, even in small doses. I toyed around with as low as 70 ius, whereas most take 250 iu’s every other day and some as high as thousands per injection. I don’t know the exact mechanisms behind the reaction, only that it is real for some men. Some men feel great while injecting hcg and others like us do not.
Within 24 hours, I begin to hold water subcutaneously and in my face. I get anxious and feel tense. Sleeping becomes an issue. I also get a boost in appetite; headaches, elevated blood pressure. The symptoms subside after discontinuing and usually are gone altogether within 1-2 weeks.
For most, but not all, there is a honeymoon phase with TRT where you feel younger, stronger, more confident, libido boost etc. This is usually because you’ve set a new baseline and some think it’s because of an increase in dopamine levels in the brain, but I don’t believe that’s been proven. It’s likely a spiderweb of reasons. This tends to stabilize and diminish unfortunately for most over time.
So again, most, especially those with low T, feel much better, especially initially when beginning injections. I would caution you to make sure you’re injecting frequently. Some Dr’s push injections once per month or every two weeks. This will not work with most TRT blends half life.
Most of us on this site suggest once per week at minimum; best would be twice per week. A minority prefer every other day injections. I’ve tried them all and landed on every 3 days. I also would not start at more than 100 mg’s per week to start. This would obviously be 50 mg’s injected twice per week. If you have a compromised liver, gut health or high bodyfat, if your T gets too high, you run the risk of over aromatizing/converting testosterone to estrogen, which has a handful of implications for some.
Most pharmacies use cotton seed oil for their testosterone blends. Some men seem to have a slight allergy to cotton seed oil and this can make them feel slightly off and slightly raise their blood pressure. If possible, try to get your script through Empower RX in TX. They use grape seed oil which seems to work better for those who feel off with the standard cottonseed blend.
For most it’s typically a life long decision for two reasons. The first is because finding a solution to your low T is too difficult, so it’s just a more viable solution to well being to be on TRT for the rest of your life.
If you can’t find the cause of your low T, supplementing with TRT will not improve your own natural production, it makes it much worse.
This plays into the 2nd reason it’s usually a life long decision and why I was asking about your head injury. Our pituitary gland “see’s” our blood serum testosterone levels. When it is low, in healthy men, our pituitary gland secretes leutinizing hormone (LH) and follice stimulating hormone (FSH). These two hormones stimulate our testicles to grow in size to prevent atrophy and also to produce sperm.
When on TRT, our pituitary gland “see’s” that our T is always at a “good” level, so it essentially stops producing LH and FSH. This causes testicular atrophy (why many men on TRT use hcg or a SERM - selective estrogen receptor modulator like nolvadex/tamoxifen or clomid).
When LH and FSH are near zero and your testicles atrophy, this is called being “shut down”. Sometimes, when men get off of TRT, their systems don’t restart, even to their poor, pre-trt levels and will be worse than starting trt because their feedback loop has been interrupted and their testes have atrophied.
Hope this helps.
Thank you Hostile for all the information you have provided throughout the last week. I was not aware that your natural testosterone would not restart if you stopped trt. It doesn’t sound like there is much of a chance of a bad reaction to starting TRT. I have a lot to think about, one minute when I am so tired (for no reason) and in a terrible mood (for no reason) i am ready to start that instant. Other times I have pushed myself through a work out and have pushed myself to activities with the kids and i think i can make it without the trt. It is always a struggle though … and it didn’t used to be a struggle at all and it used to be FUN. You mentioned you wished you had tried more things before you started TRT. Do you regret starting it? Now that you have the 5 years experience and can look back are the benefits worth being on the medicine (not sure medicine is the right word) the rest of your life? Sorry for all the questions it just seems like a HUGE decision/life changing thing and your experiences are invaluable to me. Are there still noticeable benefits even after this much time, or i suppose you are used to it and just feel normal now.
It’s a difficult question to answer because I would need to be able to compare two versions of my life next to one another. One with TRT over the past 5 years and one without TRT over the past 5 years and I cannot do that.
I don’t know what my life would have been like without TRT. I will say that finding a good Dr is extremely difficult. Getting on a good protocol took me 90% of the last 5 years and was very challenging at times. As I mentioned before I’ve done TRT, TRT with hcg, TRT with hcg and an AI, TRT with an AI, TRT with SERM and AI etc.
I will tell you that it’s not the end all be all. It’s essentially one marker I can cross off my list as optimal. I’m still human, so I still get tired and I believe that low T in men is a sign of other issues that will still linger and present themselves in different ways, even when you correct your low T with trt. Will you feel better? Most likely since you’ll no longer have low T, but those other issues will still manifest elsewhere if you don’t identify and address/correct them.
The definitive benefits that have lasted for 5 years are increased libido & muscle mass if you train and get your nutrition dialed in.
The downsides as I mentioned are finding a good Dr, getting on a protocol that works for you, testicular atrophy, infertility, some report reduced ejaculation volume & pleasure after years and the likelihood that you’ll be dependent on exogenous testosterone the rest of your life.
It’s a mixed bag and like all other things I’ve found in life, everything has it’s cost and this is no different.
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Again Hostile i appreciate your reply…Great information! Thank you
I’ve been digging deeper and believe I’ve found out what may be happening to those who don’t respond well to hCG. I’m now seeing evidence that some of us may just be “hcg hyper responders” similar to how some are extremely sensitive to AI’s.
I believe that this cascade of hormones is being activated by those who are sensitive to hcg which is causing the side effecs:
https://www.discountedlabs.com/blog/post/the_role_of_aldosterone_acth_a/
Here are some studies linking LH to these being hyper activated:
Thanks Hostile that is interesting. I haven’t been reading much lately, unfortunately our house burnt the Friday before Christmas (the kids were pretty upset they lost all their presents). It didn’t burn down but its a 100% loss of contents. We are getting things cleaned up (stripped to the studs) and the contractor is thinking we will be able to move back in about 4 months from when they start. Anyway I just haven’t had much time to think about things. I had decided, after reading your last post from last month that I was going to really push hard and get back to running and working out as much as I could and see if things improved. Since the fire I have not been able to do much. I am still eating the same, still can’t sleep very well, and I am still tired ALL the time. I don’t know what to do… once things are somewhat back to normal and I have time to think about it maybe I can come up with something.
Jesus that’s terrible news. I’m sorry. No one was hurt? Make sure you’re getting enough fat in your diet. All of our hormones are derived from cholesterol. Low fat diet = potential hormone disruption. Just take it one step at a time and come up with an action plan once your living situation stabilizes.
We all got out safe Hostile…Thankfully we were still awake when it happened. The rest is just “stuff”. We will replace what we can and the rest will all work out. Thanks again for all the information and advice it has been extremely helpful. I think for now i will stick with trying to find the time to get more workouts in and see if anything improves. Time is the problem right now though. Its hard to even get a good workout in…much less find and see a good Dr. that has experience in this stuff.
Did you ever get answers about what was causing your anxiety? I recently switched from trt to hcg and started having anxiety attacks.
hCG seems to cause anxiety and hypertension in some men.
Apparently in some men,hCG increases aldosterone. I seem to be one as well.
"A frequent cause of high blood pressure and water retention is when levels of certain hormones in the body are unbalanced or functioning poorly. The hormones that are frequently at fault are secreted by the kidneys and the pituitary or adrenal glands. They are called aldosterone, ACTH, and renin
What is aldosterone?
Aldosterone (ALD) is one of a group of connected hormones. They form the renin–angiotensin–aldosterone system (1); this system is activated when there is a decrease in blood flow to your kidneys following a drop in blood volume or blood pressure such as during heavy bleeding, or sodium levels fall below healthy levels (1).
Aldosterone is a mineralocorticoid, which means that it adjusts the mineral levels in our cells, particularly sodium and potassium (2). It regulates both fluid levels and blood pressure in the body. Stress is a factor that can increase the release of aldosterone and cause sodium levels to rise. Regardless why, an increase in aldosterone results in edema (water retention) and high blood pressure."
If you want to be done with TRT, I’d suggest dropping the hcg for Clomid or Nolvadex/Tamoxifen.