T Nation

HCG and Adex Question?


#1

Alright guys, been doing more reading and think I'm ready now but have a few questions on my cycle, and yes, I read the furious cycle and devildog AI stickies. Being my first, I took furious advice with a shorter cycle. Already got all I need thru a friend except for the HCG which I have an online source.

5'9", 200lbs, 16% BF, 32y/o,
Wk 1-8 Test-P 100mg/e2d
Wk 1-5 Anavar 40mg/ed
Wk 1-7 Proviron 50mg/ed (i know im missing for last week but it was all I could get, should I taper off so it can last in the last week with the test?)
Wk 5-8, 3-8 or 5-6 HCG (question below)
Wk 1-8 Adex (research) 0.25mg/ed
Wk 9-12 Nolvadex (research) 20mg/ed 4 days after last test shot
Wk 9-12 Tribulus or Unleashed from Protein Factory (anybody used their Post Cycle pills?)

Like I said, my first cycle so didn't want to go hard with anything. First, I know HCG loses its freshness after a month of being mixed and me and my boy were gonna split a 5000 IU vial. Can we either a)do 500iu/e3d wk5, 250iu/e3d wk 6-8, b)do like furious said but didn't prefer the 1000iu in wk 5 and 6, 2 weeks before last test shot or c)250iu/e3d wk 3-8? Would rather not do C b/c would be more expensive and harder to find 2500iu vials.

Next was when I was reading the AI/SERM sticky, nobody really answered if adex should be taken into PCT, it seemed like there were mix feelings about it? If it does, how much and how long? Last, from this site, my boy that hooked me up, and other sites, heard mixed stuff on tapering SERMs. Is it OK to go thru the whole 4 weeks at 20mg (more cost effective for me) or do I need to do 40mg first 2 weeks and 20mg last 2 weeks?

I know this is not a cheap lifestyle but like all of us, if we can do something that works and spend less, why not? Appreciate the help...


#2

Looks pretty good to me.

  1. HCG: Go with 250iu E3D starting as early as possible. Around week 2 if possible. If not, start later. It will help nonetheless. Any HCG you add in is a bonus since many recover fairly well even without it. HCG is typically not that expensive.

  2. I like taking Adex all through my PCT. I use a very small dose of 0.14mg EOD (= 0.5mg/w).

  3. You can try 4 weeks of 20mg/d. That may be enough for you. Many swear by 40/40/20/20. Maybe compromise and do week 1 at 40mg, then the rest at 20mg. Bill Roberts suggests front loading Nolva on Day 1 - 120mg spread throughout the day - to get blood level up quickly followed by 4 weeks of 20mg/d. Using HCG will make for an easier recovery in any case and you will have only been suppressed for 8 weeks (instead of 10 weeks on a similar cycle with the enanthate ester).


#3

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Looks pretty good to me.

  1. HCG: Go with 250iu E3D starting as early as possible. Around week 2 if possible. If not, start later. It will help nonetheless. Any HCG you add in is a bonus since many recover fairly well even without it. HCG is typically not that expensive.

  2. I like taking Adex all through my PCT. I use a very small dose of 0.14mg EOD (= 0.5mg/w).

  3. You can try 4 weeks of 20mg/d. That may be enough for you. Many swear by 40/40/20/20. Maybe compromise and do week 1 at 40mg, then the rest at 20mg. Bill Roberts suggests front loading Nolva on Day 1 - 120mg spread throughout the day - to get blood level up quickly followed by 4 weeks of 20mg/d. Using HCG will make for an easier recovery in any case and you will have only been suppressed for 8 weeks (instead of 10 weeks on a similar cycle with the enanthate ester).[/quote]

thanks, I will have to try to get more liquid nolva then. And yes, I ready on another forum that its good to take about 80-120mg on day one than 80/40/20/20 after that for longer cycles and lesser dose and only 3 weeks for cycles lesser than 10 weeks. I hear u on the HCG, will try to get some…thanks for the info…


#4

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Looks pretty good to me.

  1. HCG: Go with 250iu E3D starting as early as possible. Around week 2 if possible. If not, start later. It will help nonetheless. Any HCG you add in is a bonus since many recover fairly well even without it. HCG is typically not that expensive.

  2. I like taking Adex all through my PCT. I use a very small dose of 0.14mg EOD (= 0.5mg/w).

  3. You can try 4 weeks of 20mg/d. That may be enough for you. Many swear by 40/40/20/20. Maybe compromise and do week 1 at 40mg, then the rest at 20mg. Bill Roberts suggests front loading Nolva on Day 1 - 120mg spread throughout the day - to get blood level up quickly followed by 4 weeks of 20mg/d. Using HCG will make for an easier recovery in any case and you will have only been suppressed for 8 weeks (instead of 10 weeks on a similar cycle with the enanthate ester).[/quote]

thanks, I will have to try to get more liquid nolva then. And yes, I ready on another forum that its good to take about 80-120mg on day one than 80/40/20/20 after that for longer cycles and lesser dose and only 3 weeks for cycles lesser than 10 weeks. I hear u on the HCG, will try to get some…thanks for the info…


#5

If you go the front load route with Nolva, you definitely don’t need more than 20/20/20/20/ for the four weeks (except for the 120-140mg dose on day 1 spread throughout the day).


#6

As far as the orals, is it better to take with food or without?


#7

Arimidex anastrozole was researched for this. Women taking 1mg/day were found to absorb well with or without food.

“”"Clomid - Dosage
50-100 mg/per day(1-2 tablets) usually taken with fluids after meals. If more tablets are taken it is recommended that they be administered in equal doses distributed throughout the day. The duration of intake should not exceed 10 to 14 days.

Most athletes begin with 100 mg/day taking one 50mg tablet every morning and evening after meals. After the fifth day the dosage is often reduced to only one 50mg tablet per day. It is normally not necessary to take the compound for more than 10 days in order to increase the endogenus testosterone production.

To be effective as an antiestrogen Clomid needs to be taken for several weeks.
“”"

Nolvadex: “”“The tablets are usually taken 1-2x daily, swallowed whole without chewing, with some liquid during meals.
“””

toremifene : “”“The tablets are usually taken 1-2x daily, swallowed whole without chewing, with some liquid during meals.”""
“”"

When you see something referring to multiple doses through the day, that is probably in the the life and death context of breast cancer. What is optimal? Don’t know. When a SERM triggers LH release, remember that LH has a very short half life. Note that hCG has a 36 hour half life [some sources may suggest different figures] which works very well with EOD dosing.

Clomid had a 5-6 day half life. Nolva is reported at 14 days, but I wonder if that is for clearance not half life. Toremifene is 5-6 days.

So there does not seem to be any reason from a half life point of view to take more than one dose per day or even every day. However, statements to the contrary may have been concerned with absorption when large amounts are taken at once. Again, concerns over larger doses may be in the context of breast cancer use.

So SERMs do not need to be taken every day. But dose per day would have to stack up.

Note that for any drug with a long half life, it takes days of normal dosing to reach steady state levels. If gyno strikes, one could front load a SERM.

There are some drugs that absorb better with meals than between. Some recommendations to take drugs with food can be because of problems when taken on an empty stomach which can be from a fast onset of absorption or irritation from the drug.


#8

Great info on SERMs KSman.

OP, if you were referring to var and proviron. I am not sure. I like to take dbol with food and it seems to work well for me that way.


#9

As far the Proviron, would it make a difference taking it 50mg in one take or split the pills for twice a day (50mg total)? Just asking cuz it would obviously save time…


#10

Time? Are you that pressed for time that you can’t make room to take a tablet??

I dose twice a day, but i doubt it makes much difference.


#11

[quote] Brook wrote:
Time? Are you that pressed for time that you can’t make room to take a tablet??

I dose twice a day, but i doubt it makes much difference.[/quote]

I know it sounds petty but I work nights as an RT in an ICU and it can get crazy at times or ur so tired that u lose track of time of forget things…


#12

[quote]esco0101 wrote:
Brook wrote:
Time? Are you that pressed for time that you can’t make room to take a tablet??

I dose twice a day, but i doubt it makes much difference.

I know it sounds petty but I work nights as an RT in an ICU and it can get crazy at times or ur so tired that u lose track of time of forget things… [/quote]

That is fair enough :wink:


#13

Also wanted to use a test booster like Alpha Male after my cycle, should I use it with the Nolva or should I wait after the Nolva is done in my 3rd-4th week of PCT?