T Nation

HCG: $1000; AI: $400; What Do I Do?

I thought I was golden…I walked out of my first endocrinologist appointment with a prescription for the perfect protocol: Biweekly Testosterone Cyp self injection, HCG, and an AI!

Pretty freaking amazing, right?

Well I get to Sam’s club, and get laid with this:
Beta HCG: $1000 per month
Aromatase Inhibitor: $400 per month (Femara/Letrozole)
Testosterone: Affordable

So what the heck am I suppose to do? Take the Testosterone without the HCG and let my gonads shrivel and never have kids? Take the testosterone without the AI, and let my Estradiol levels wreck me?

I’m 18 years old, have ultra low testosterone, have no libido, no muscle mass, no energy, no drive, no passion for life, depression, no erections, anxiety, fat accumulation despite a perfect diet, no facial hair development, young looks, etc.

What the heck am I suppose to do? Keep on living this crappy life or go into $20k a year debt?

You should call around to some more pharmacies. I just started HCG, 10,000iu for about 60 dollars. I know there is a couple of Indian online pharmacies that sell it much cheaper. I don’t know about your AI, you could call around there as well. Later and good luck.

[quote]jarvmaster wrote:
You should call around to some more pharmacies. I just started HCG, 10,000iu for about 60 dollars. I know there is a couple of Indian online pharmacies that sell it much cheaper. I don’t know about your AI, you could call around there as well. Later and good luck.[/quote]

HCG for $60? Where and how?

I was told by my doctor “it will cost thousands of dollars per month”

That’s kinda vague to “call around”, what do you mean by that?

edit: oh do you mean call other places besides Sam’s Club pharmacy?

Are you sure you didn’t ask for HGH. I pay about 20 dollars a month for mine…overseas.

I think you are talking about hgh. My pharmacy here in Minnesota charged me 60 dollars for a month of hcg.

[quote]bholiday wrote:
Are you sure you didn’t ask for HGH. I pay about 20 dollars a month for mine…overseas.[/quote]

[quote]jarvmaster wrote:
I think you are talking about hgh. My pharmacy here in Minnesota charged me 60 dollars for a month of hcg. [/quote]

I am certain I am talking about HUMAN CHORIONIC GONADATROPIN. My endocrinologist frequently used the term, the prescription paper used HCG, and my pharmacist said HCG, so I am certain I am talking about HCG, not HGH.

Why is mine $1000 a month, when yall’s are so much cheaper?

Something’s REALLY wrong with those prices! Are you IN a prison with someone trying to smuggle it to you?

A certain nationwide specialty pharmacy has Pregnyl HCG 10,000iu’s. It is delivered overnight with syringes, alcohol wipes, and band-aids too for $57.00.

jdinatale: PM me for for their name.

What exactly does your “perfect diet” consist of? Meaning what foods do you eat?
Unless you have a true endocrine problem you are probably killing yourself with food.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

OP: post the prescribed doses!

I get hCG and T cyp at Sam’s… hCG cost around $100 for 10,000iu

Sounds like you were prescribed 1mg adex per day, you will start at 1mg/week. It is sold in cards of 30 tablets. That will last 30 weeks.

10,000iu of hCG should last 80 days at 250iu EOD.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]Tom-in-AZ wrote:
What exactly does your “perfect diet” consist of? Meaning what foods do you eat?
Unless you have a true endocrine problem you are probably killing yourself with food.[/quote]

Your post may be well-meaning but is retarded at the same time. Do you think his problems are merely the result of poor eating? At 18? I seriously doubt it. Sure, poor eating and gut inflammation will cause similar symptoms in later life, but not at 18 - IMO.
BBB[/quote]

I’ll cut you some slack since you’re from Wales. You apparently have no idea the horrible advice doctors are giving out in this country. Most don’t care much about the cause, they just try to treat symptoms with prescriptions. We have young pre-teen children getting Type II diabetes by the truckload now. Type II is also almost a given for older folks.

So many young people now are raised on diets of almost pure sugar thanks, in part, to the horrible FDA food pyramid and are acquiring metabolic syndrome at very early ages. Read about glucose-insulin cycling sometime and what is does to the body.

It’s entirely possible the OP has already wrecked his endocrine system so badly he needs intervention. Thus my question to him.
Remember just because you think it, it may not be true. Try to open your mind a little.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[quote]Tom-in-AZ wrote:

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]Tom-in-AZ wrote:
What exactly does your “perfect diet” consist of? Meaning what foods do you eat?
Unless you have a true endocrine problem you are probably killing yourself with food.[/quote]

Your post may be well-meaning but is retarded at the same time. Do you think his problems are merely the result of poor eating? At 18? I seriously doubt it. Sure, poor eating and gut inflammation will cause similar symptoms in later life, but not at 18 - IMO.
BBB[/quote]

I’ll cut you some slack since you’re from Wales. You apparently have no idea the horrible advice doctors are giving out in this country. Most don’t care much about the cause, they just try to treat symptoms with prescriptions. We have young pre-teen children getting Type II diabetes by the truckload now. Type II is also almost a given for older folks.

So many young people now are raised on diets of almost pure sugar thanks, in part, to the horrible FDA food pyramid and are acquiring metabolic syndrome at very early ages. Read about glucose-insulin cycling sometime and what is does to the body.

It’s entirely possible the OP has already wrecked his endocrine system so badly he needs intervention. Thus my question to him.
Remember just because you think it, it may not be true. Try to open your mind a little.
[/quote]

I guarantee that I eat healthier than pretty much every 18 year old in this country:

Here is what a sample day might look like for any given day that I eat:

Approximately 128 ounces of water per day. No other drinks like soda, juice, coffee, tea, etc.

Meal 1:
.75 Cups Oats
1 Scoop Whey
1 Fruit (differs by day, mixed variety)

Meal 2:
Barley
Vegetable (differs by day, mixed variety)
1 Serving Chicken Breasts

Meal 3:
Tuna
.75 cup oats
Handful almonds

Meal 4:
Whatever meat my mom cooks
Whole grain Rice
Vegetable (differs by day, mixed variety)

Meal 5:
.75 cups oats
Fish
Vegetable

Meal 6
-Milk
-Scoop Whey

Supplements:
-Whey
-Omega Fish Oil
-Flax Seed Oil
-Multivitamin

[quote]jdinatale wrote:

I guarantee that I eat healthier than pretty much every 18 year old in this country:

Here is what a sample day might look like for any given day that I eat:

Approximately 128 ounces of water per day. No other drinks like soda, juice, coffee, tea, etc.

Meal 1:
.75 Cups Oats
1 Scoop Whey
1 Fruit (differs by day, mixed variety)

Meal 2:
Barley
Vegetable (differs by day, mixed variety)
1 Serving Chicken Breasts

Meal 3:
Tuna
.75 cup oats
Handful almonds

Meal 4:
Whatever meat my mom cooks
Whole grain Rice
Vegetable (differs by day, mixed variety)

Meal 5:
.75 cups oats
Fish
Vegetable

Meal 6
-Milk
-Scoop Whey

Supplements:
-Whey
-Omega Fish Oil
-Flax Seed Oil
-Multivitamin[/quote]

I know you mean well and by the conventional wisdom you are eating properly.
Unfortunately you are eating almost no fat and too many carbohydrates. In essence you are probably starving and messing up your metabolism at the same time.
If you want to try and get better I’d like to suggest you try something different for 2 months.

  1. Get all the grains and legumes out of your diet. No oats, bread, potatoes or starches of any kind. This is key.
  2. Get about 75% of your caloric intake from good fats in the form of pasture butter, free range eggs, pasture fed beef fat (tallow). Coconut milk and heavy cream also. This is most important.
  3. Eat limited, small amounts of berries, like blueberries and raspberries. All organic.
  4. Only eat dark leafy vegetables like spinach. No dressing just raw.
  5. For protein, get grass fed beef and bison. Eat free range chicken if you can find it, dark meat only. More fat. Try to stick around 100~120 grams of protein a day.
  6. Keep taking the supplements, omega 3 (not omega 6). Add Vit D3 and magnesium. Kelp pills for iodine is good. You don’t need the whey or flax oil.
    Try to eat between 2500 and 3000 calories per day to start so you can replenish yourself. You will naturally find your maintenance calories after awhile.
    Don’t buy or consume any boxed or packaged foods.
    Just a caution. It takes about 2 weeks for your body to switch to using fats for energy so you may feel bad at first. But if you stick with it there is the potential to change your life.

Add in some weight training and HIT when you get your strength back. But not during the trial period.
Educate yourself also. Try reading Primal Body Primal Mind by Nora Gedgaudas. Google keywords like “paleo diet”, “primal eating”, etc.
There may be a lot of yelling and screaming from forum members after this post hits. People may say this will kill you. They are wrong. The information is out there. I was going down your path until I started eating this way. Now I eat like this as a way of life and my health is incredible. Never sick, never tired. Strong and vital, 2 kids and a great wife. I look 15 years younger than I am. It’s the way we were meant to eat.
Anyway what is the hurt in trying for a limited time?
Good luck. I hope you decide to try this. I feel bad thinking of you doing HRT for the next 50 years.
All the best,
Tom

[quote]Tom-in-AZ wrote:

[quote]jdinatale wrote:

I guarantee that I eat healthier than pretty much every 18 year old in this country:

Here is what a sample day might look like for any given day that I eat:

Approximately 128 ounces of water per day. No other drinks like soda, juice, coffee, tea, etc.

Meal 1:
.75 Cups Oats
1 Scoop Whey
1 Fruit (differs by day, mixed variety)

Meal 2:
Barley
Vegetable (differs by day, mixed variety)
1 Serving Chicken Breasts

Meal 3:
Tuna
.75 cup oats
Handful almonds

Meal 4:
Whatever meat my mom cooks
Whole grain Rice
Vegetable (differs by day, mixed variety)

Meal 5:
.75 cups oats
Fish
Vegetable

Meal 6
-Milk
-Scoop Whey

Supplements:
-Whey
-Omega Fish Oil
-Flax Seed Oil
-Multivitamin[/quote]

I know you mean well and by the conventional wisdom you are eating properly.
Unfortunately you are eating almost no fat and too many carbohydrates. In essence you are probably starving and messing up your metabolism at the same time.
If you want to try and get better I’d like to suggest you try something different for 2 months.

  1. Get all the grains and legumes out of your diet. No oats, bread, potatoes or starches of any kind. This is key.
  2. Get about 75% of your caloric intake from good fats in the form of pasture butter, free range eggs, pasture fed beef fat (tallow). Coconut milk and heavy cream also. This is most important.
  3. Eat limited, small amounts of berries, like blueberries and raspberries. All organic.
  4. Only eat dark leafy vegetables like spinach. No dressing just raw.
  5. For protein, get grass fed beef and bison. Eat free range chicken if you can find it, dark meat only. More fat. Try to stick around 100~120 grams of protein a day.
  6. Keep taking the supplements, omega 3 (not omega 6). Add Vit D3 and magnesium. Kelp pills for iodine is good. You don’t need the whey or flax oil.
    Try to eat between 2500 and 3000 calories per day to start so you can replenish yourself. You will naturally find your maintenance calories after awhile.
    Don’t buy or consume any boxed or packaged foods.
    Just a caution. It takes about 2 weeks for your body to switch to using fats for energy so you may feel bad at first. But if you stick with it there is the potential to change your life.

Add in some weight training and HIT when you get your strength back. But not during the trial period.
Educate yourself also. Try reading Primal Body Primal Mind by Nora Gedgaudas. Google keywords like “paleo diet”, “primal eating”, etc.
There may be a lot of yelling and screaming from forum members after this post hits. People may say this will kill you. They are wrong. The information is out there. I was going down your path until I started eating this way. Now I eat like this as a way of life and my health is incredible. Never sick, never tired. Strong and vital, 2 kids and a great wife. I look 15 years younger than I am. It’s the way we were meant to eat.
Anyway what is the hurt in trying for a limited time?
Good luck. I hope you decide to try this. I feel bad thinking of you doing HRT for the next 50 years.
All the best,
Tom
[/quote]

That is a extremely fascinating idea, but I will admit that I will need to do a little bit more research before committing to that diet, but I will definitely read up on that. Thanks for the suggestion.

How would this effect my testosterone levels? I have been diagnosed with hypogonadism, so I do not see how a diet could change a problem with my testicles.

The only issue is this: I am 18 and living with my parents, and I do not think financially we can afford to buy an entire grocery list for just one guy out of 5 family members.

Wait, so is this the “keto diet” (high fat indicated that it might be keto) that I’ve heard so much about? Or is it more towards paleo diet?

any other forum members have thoughts?

[/quote]

That is a extremely fascinating idea, but I will admit that I will need to do a little bit more research before committing to that diet, but I will definitely read up on that. Thanks for the suggestion.

How would this effect my testosterone levels? I have been diagnosed with hypogonadism, so I do not see how a diet could change a problem with my testicles.

The only issue is this: I am 18 and living with my parents, and I do not think financially we can afford to buy an entire grocery list for just one guy out of 5 family members.

Wait, so is this the “keto diet” (high fat indicated that it might be keto) that I’ve heard so much about? Or is it more towards paleo diet?

any other forum members have thoughts?
[/quote]

You’d be surprised at the extent of what you eat can change your body. Read about gene expression related to diet. Speaking anecdotally based on my experience, I reversed my declining testosterone after I started eating like this. There are other case histories out there with the same result.
Also it’s not a “diet”. It’s way of nourishing the body that was pretty much the norm before grain cultivation and more recently before the FDA took over.
Read the science and fact that is out there. Then either do it or don’t but don’t make excuses. You are 18 now and don’t need your parents blessing or the approval of a bunch of strangers on the internet, I hope.
When you read forums for advice try to read with a critical eye. Look for facts and data to support claims. A good example is BBB statement, something like, “sometimes there is just a fragile endocrine system at work”. Totally unsupported and just an opinion. Things don’t happen for no reason and we’ve gotten into believing that symptoms are causes.
All I’m doing is suggesting something and pointing you to reference material so you can decide for yourself. If you really want to do this then find a way.
Good luck

my pharmacy here in WA state wanted $280 per month for hcg. Adex was covered by insurance, after heafty deductible. Test cyp cheap. I got my hcg from AllDayChemist from India, cheap. seems to work. My nuts quit aching. If you can’t afford the Adex, get anistrozole from Iron Dragon Research. They sell it as a lab research chemical. Better check w’ KSman on the dosing for that one.

good luck.

[quote]jdinatale wrote:
I thought I was golden…I walked out of my first endocrinologist appointment with a prescription for the perfect protocol: Biweekly Testosterone Cyp self injection, HCG, and an AI!

Pretty freaking amazing, right?

Well I get to Sam’s club, and get laid with this:
Beta HCG: $1000 per month
Aromatase Inhibitor: $400 per month (Femara/Letrozole)
Testosterone: Affordable

So what the heck am I suppose to do? Take the Testosterone without the HCG and let my gonads shrivel and never have kids? Take the testosterone without the AI, and let my Estradiol levels wreck me?

I’m 18 years old, have ultra low testosterone, have no libido, no muscle mass, no energy, no drive, no passion for life, depression, no erections, anxiety, fat accumulation despite a perfect diet, no facial hair development, young looks, etc.

What the heck am I suppose to do? Keep on living this crappy life or go into $20k a year debt?[/quote]

A Florida compounding pharmacy fills my HCG prescription. $25 for 5000iu. Not quite as potent as Novarel, but I can’t afford Novarel at $120.

As for Arimidex, my doctor prescribed 1mg a day, and insurance pays for it. I am not sure how that works, I was surprised. I don’t take that much.

In MN and under my insurance, I get 1 - 10ml / 200mg of Test C for $45 and I can reorder every 66 days. I can get the Arimdex 1mg 90 pills for $30 and reorder every 66 days, and the hCG Preg - 10,000 unit vial for $84 and agian reorder… THe only question I have is that is says Quantity 9. Does that mean I get 9 vials that equal 10,000, or does that mean I get 9 vials of 10,000? The way i read it is 9 vials of 10,000.

So, no math wizard but that would be 90,000 for $84. I dont have my script yet for the AI or the hcg due to not seeing my specialist until APril but i have already done the insurance research to see what the cost would be.