Irish is right, Haye is a big talented, CRUISERWEIGHT, he has not shown me that he is an impressive heavyweight yet.
Haye looked much less than blazing against Valuev, simply because of the size difference. I wager he will have exponentially more problems with a true superheavyweight who is also a very talented fighter, like W.K.
this is only going to be a good fight in hype, I do not see it being much of a contest come actual fight time.
[quote]Nick_Graham wrote:
Ha 100% agree that Valuev is a poor boxer. However he is VERY GOOD at what he does! Around 50 wins! If he’s so beatable why didn’t someone swoop in and take an easy belt? (Before Haye)
And I get the sentiment of brothers not fighting but I also see the desire to be the out and out best. Boxing is profession and not something you do to kill time. Unifying the belts use to be a boxers ambition.
Do you agree with the rest…you only seem to counteract one argument and focus one that, as oppose to accepting the other achievements which are indisputable. You are the first person I have ever heard discredited the cruiserweight division so much. You only argument is that “its odd”. [/quote]
Holyfield was robbed in his fight with Valuev, not only that but the Heavyweight division really only consists of two fighters and they’re the Klitschko brothers. The rest are just opponents that will be jabbed to death before being knocked senseless.
To my knowledge brothers have never fought in a sanctioned bout, why would they? It’s not a sparring session, they’d have to actually fight. Would you risk injuring your brother or even be able to bring yourself to fight them? No one in the boxing community would expect them to fight because brothers simply don’t fight each other unless they want to.
The Cruiserweight division has never been good, even in the 1990s. At one point it’s just really a battle between Holyfield and Qawi, beyond that it’s been people either too small or too reluctant to make it as a heavyweight. The last time it even got any real exposure was when Hoylfield was still a Cruiserweight. It’s purely a division created by sanctioning bodies to get more sanctioning fees, now the only real purpose it serves is the fact you almost have to be 6’5", 240, and have a 80" reach for you to be competitive in the Heavyweight division.
[quote]Nick_Graham wrote:
I hope one day I reach a level on knowledge like duffyj2 where by all my opinions are facts.
You fail to make one valid point you use opinions and disregard all Hayes achievements.
David Haye unified the cruiserweight titles. Beat the number 1 fighter in the world at the time - Mormeck. Beat Valuev who neither Klitschko ever took on. (They won’t even take on each other ) Valuev was no mug he beat Holifield Haye is the real deal. Not exciting? 23 KO in 26 begs to differ. [/quote]
Why would brothers fight each other in a sanctioned bout? That’s ridiculous. You watch too much SKY and I wouldn’t be surprised if you thought Haye vs Harrison would actually be an interesting match up.
Haye was a good Cruiserweight but he’s done nothing at Heavyweight other than backing out of fights with the Klitschkos on numerous occasions, Wlad twice and Vitali once.
Ok I can see you reasoning behing brothers not fighting. But why have they never though Valuev if he’s so beatable?
And other than Harrison himself I don’t know anyone who thought hed win especially not me. Hayes underrated, he beat Valuev and showed he competes with the biggest. Admittedly he’s got a small reach around 78cm, but he’s a better fighter than Klitschko and you’ll see that when he beats him. He’s had some very tough and credible opponents in cruiserweight and heavyweight.
Valuev’s promoters and management team would not let him get anywhere near the Klitschko brothers.
it really is that simple.
[quote]Nick_Graham wrote:
Ok I can see you reasoning behing brothers not fighting. But why have they never though Valuev if he’s so beatable?
And other than Harrison himself I don’t know anyone who thought hed win especially not me. Hayes underrated, he beat Valuev and showed he competes with the biggest. Admittedly he’s got a small reach around 78cm, but he’s a better fighter than Klitschko and you’ll see that when he beats him. He’s had some very tough and credible opponents in cruiserweight and heavyweight. [/quote]
There can be a lot of reasons why they never fought, Valuev is practically the only Heavyweight worth mentioning they haven’t fought and it’s most likely because a deal couldn’t be reached. Them being “scared” of Valuev is really just a story brought about by David Haye to make himself sound good despite the fact he secretly negotiated with Valuev while “trying” to make a deal with Vitali Klitshcko and took that fight instead of Vitali.
Cruiserweight is not Heavyweight, most Cruiserweights can’t even compete successfully against the top opposition at Heavyweight. Ruiz and Valuev are also in a no way a measuring stick for what David Haye can do against the two best fighters in the Heavyweight division. This is an exciting fight because David Haye isn’t some washed up fighter looking for paydays or someone that’s 220 pounds of flab, he’s an athletic HW in his prime and that’s something the brothers haven’t seen since Samuel Peter[to some degree]. That however is where the interest stops, it’s probably also why Haye has been so reluctant to take the fight. Wlad is a cautious, big, athletic Heavyweight and Haye is an aggressive fighter who was eating jabs all night against Ruiz. Vitali has a superior work rate than his brother and an unquestioned chin, Haye better hope he faces Wlad rather than Vitali because the fight wont be pretty.
Fair enough it seems reasonable, I never thought they were scared, just curious as to why they’d never met. Heck they’re not that far of his height. all been around a while and title holders. Valuev and the boxing community wrote off Haye, and he nearly took down the man with arguably the hardest jaw in the division.
I get the technical ability and intelligence of the klitschkos but Haye is faster. There’s no dount in my mind, but I’m curious as to whether you agree about noticably a bigger hitter Haye is. He’s big and a very well built athlete but he’s not huge by a long shot.
[quote]Nick_Graham wrote:
Fair enough it seems reasonable, I never thought they were scared, just curious as to why they’d never met. Heck they’re not that far of his height. all been around a while and title holders. Valuev and the boxing community wrote off Haye, and he nearly took down the man with arguably the hardest jaw in the division.
I get the technical ability and intelligence of the klitschkos but Haye is faster. There’s no dount in my mind, but I’m curious as to whether you agree about noticably a bigger hitter Haye is. He’s big and a very well built athlete but he’s not huge by a long shot. [/quote]
Bigger hitter? Wlad and Vitali Klitschko have similar KO percentages against Heavyweights, Haye ran up that record at Cruiserweight. His only stoppages at Heavyweight are Harrison who was completely shot and unworthy of even being in the ring and Ruiz who stopped being relevant about nine years prior to fighting Haye. Valuev was wobbled, that’s true, but Valuev also refused to fight either Klitschko brother so I’m guessing he viewed Haye as less of a risk.
There are a few painfully obvious problems with Haye in this matchup: he’s a questionable defense and is noticeably smaller than both Wlad and Vitali. Both brothers control the fight with their jab and Haye is always going to have to bring the fight to them or risk being kept on the outside all night. I also think Haye has some minor stamina issues and will slow down and be reckless in fights, seeing as he can’t parry the jab that will also be a major issue.
Feel bad for Solis, seems like his career is over.
Those with fucked knees can relate.
EDIT: Just heard Haye talking about Solis and hate him significantly more than I did already. The guy is just a cunt. There’s not a classy bone in his body.
Admittedly it wasn’t sympathetic and the injury Solis sustained meant it seemed like he was kicking whilst he was down. But Solis career is not over.
Anyway he was out of shape and obese! He’s a professional and thus Haye didn’t hold back with his opinion. He’s a grown man and can take criticism. Any other sport athletes come under scrutiny. Are you disagreeing he wasn’t out of shape?
Haye was very complimentary of his ability and skill, he stated what he thought would have helped Solis pull of the upset.
Saying he’ll go down as just another fat burn wasn’t pleasant and perhaps lacked class but its forgivable. Don’t forget he’s trying to put down the Klitschkos in prepartion for the figh, and thus risque remarks are likely to be made (majority of boxers do it).
[quote]Nick_Graham wrote:
Admittedly it wasn’t sympathetic and the injury Solis sustained meant it seemed like he was kicking whilst he was down. But Solis career is not over.[/quote]
Says you. These injuries are vicious. His knee will never be 100% again and whether or not it will ever be a significant fraction of that, only time will tell.
He was flat out was not obese. As for being out of shape, that’s something that only the ring can decide. He had never lost until this fight. And until he gasses badly and does, nobody can make that call. George Foreman was not in peak of rippige when he made his comeback and he functioned fine. If Solis thinks the power to fitness ratio is working in his favor we’ll have to keep mum until he’s beaten.
[quote]Haye was very complimentary of his ability and skill, he stated what he thought would have helped Solis pull of the upset.
Saying he’ll go down as just another fat burn wasn’t pleasant and perhaps lacked class but its forgivable. Don’t forget he’s trying to put down the Klitschkos in prepartion for the figh, and thus risque remarks are likely to be made (majority of boxers do it). [/quote]
Haye called him “a fat bum” and accused him of bringing the injury on himself. He said “That’s why you shouldn’t have excess body fat! A lean 30-year-old healthy athlete shouldn’t have joints/ligament popping for no reason”.
WHAT THE FUCK? This is the same old grandad that “injured his back” to whine his way out of a big fight with a Klitschko insulting a guy who kept his mouth shut, never complained and took the fight to Vitali. And FUCK the weight issue. Odlanier’s BALLS outweigh David Haye by 50 pounds.
Solis was doing fucking great until his knee let him down. And the retarded commetary that followed the fight shows just how little any of them knows about a serious knee injury. You can be feeling fine for weeks only to crumple to the canvass in seconds. That is the nature of the beast.
I don’t want to seem like I’m picking out you Nick. You’ve carried yourself well on here without making personal attacks etc… but I hate David Haye.
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I don’t dislike him- in fact, I dislike the type of fighter that Wlad is much more. Haye is a bit smaller and is quicker- much more like the heavyweights of old that were actually fun to watch. However, Ruiz was way past his prime by the time he fought Haye. Haye is essentially a big mouthed, unproven fighter in my eyes.
And as far as British boxing, I’m not a fan. I love Ricky Hatton, don’t get me wrong, he’s one of my favorites, but the British press seizes upon every mediocre fighter the isles put out and makes a hero out of him. Khan’s ability is vastly overblown, as is that of most other European fighters.
Khan’s weak chin will end his career, and Haye is really a cruiserweight in my eyes.[/quote]
so you’re not a fan of british boxing because of the media?
Khan is a talent, that is undeniable, he got dropped after getting over confident and not keeping those hands up. his chin is suspect but he definitely doesnt have a glass jaw, the determination and grit he showed in the maidana fight shows he’s got the heart to be a great fighter. he’s not mediocre at all.
Haye is explosive and an exciting fighter. i use to dislike his cockyness but all the trash talking has actually lured klitschko into a fight. He hsant been a heavyweight long and this is a clever ploy to get to the top quickly. This fight wouldnt have happened if not for his provocation of Klitsch.
the fact of the matter is; we are actually having a discussion about a heavyweight fight. first time in years.
[quote]FuriousFists wrote:
[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
I don’t dislike him- in fact, I dislike the type of fighter that Wlad is much more. Haye is a bit smaller and is quicker- much more like the heavyweights of old that were actually fun to watch. However, Ruiz was way past his prime by the time he fought Haye. Haye is essentially a big mouthed, unproven fighter in my eyes.
And as far as British boxing, I’m not a fan. I love Ricky Hatton, don’t get me wrong, he’s one of my favorites, but the British press seizes upon every mediocre fighter the isles put out and makes a hero out of him. Khan’s ability is vastly overblown, as is that of most other European fighters.
Khan’s weak chin will end his career, and Haye is really a cruiserweight in my eyes.[/quote]
so you’re not a fan of british boxing because of the media?
Khan is a talent, that is undeniable, he got dropped after getting over confident and not keeping those hands up. his chin is suspect but he definitely doesnt have a glass jaw, the determination and grit he showed in the maidana fight shows he’s got the heart to be a great fighter. he’s not mediocre at all.
Haye is explosive and an exciting fighter. i use to dislike his cockyness but all the trash talking has actually lured klitschko into a fight. He hsant been a heavyweight long and this is a clever ploy to get to the top quickly. This fight wouldnt have happened if not for his provocation of Klitsch.
the fact of the matter is; we are actually having a discussion about a heavyweight fight. first time in years.
[/quote]
The fight was supposed to happen two years ago so he wasn’t too clever. He could have just transitioned to the Heavyweight division and got the fight in about the same amount of time. Haye tried to be Muhammad Ali and make Klitschko into his Liston but unlike Ali he didn’t have the courage to take the fight when it’s available.
[quote]FuriousFists wrote:
so you’re not a fan of british boxing because of the media?
[/quote]
I don’t like British fighters cause a good part of the time they’re hyped and hyped and hyped, only to face a good American fighter (meaning USA or Mexico) and get knocked the fuck out.
He’s not great and that chin, while not made of glass, is more like a ceramic pot. Drop it from more than an inch off the ground and that shit’s done.
Maidana is a very powerful, but very mediocre fighter in nearly every other regard, including footwork, punch accuracy, and ring generalship.
What that fight showed me is that still, you land one big punch, and he’s wobbling. You land two, and Khan’s gone.
He’s a loud mouth who’s never beat any one. Luring the champ to fight you SHOULD be hard when you’re a loud mouth who’s never beat anyone.
No, YOU’RE having it because you think 1) the fight’s going to happen and 2) it’ll be exciting if it does.
I don’t think either of these things.
Haye to win!!! cant wait to hear the excuses after
[quote]StephenD wrote:
Haye to win!!! cant wait to hear the excuses after[/quote]
I’m actually going to purchase the PPV if available solely to hear Haye’s excuses for the loss. I’m looking forward to him saying something ridiculous like “Wlad just wanted to wait til I was past my prime to make it easier!” or “I’m still recovering from my back injury from two years ago!”.
Is anyone else eagerly anticipating the “Action Heroes” card?
[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
Is anyone else eagerly anticipating the “Action Heroes” card?[/quote]
Sometimes it can be difficult to pick up on humor while reading text so I can’t tell if you’re serious or not, personally I could care less about it. Morales is completely shot and doesn’t even deserve to be on World Championship Boxing, the fight is a complete mismatch.
[quote]goldengloves wrote:
[quote]duffyj2 wrote:
Is anyone else eagerly anticipating the “Action Heroes” card?[/quote]
Sometimes it can be difficult to pick up on humor while reading text so I can’t tell if you’re serious or not, personally I could care less about it. Morales is completely shot and doesn’t even deserve to be on World Championship Boxing, the fight is a complete mismatch.
[/quote]
Am serious I’m afraid. I’m not saying the fights have any significance for boxing, but I always enjoy watching Maidana fight and really like Michael Katsidis (who is in a more interesting fight anyway).
And Malignaggi… well I’m sure it’ll be nice to listen to him talk.
Perhaps it wasn’t his most notable fight, but how does the Haye vs Mormeck fight get swept under the radar? Mormeck at the tome was the number 1 fighter in the world. Haye has a big mouth, but talent to back that up. Ill concede his rape remark was in very bad taste, BUT calling Solis fat is nothing. I see your argument about the ring being the decider of fitness, but Haye as a professional is entitled to critique another fighter, a grown man and professional.
In regards to Khan, I can not disagree more! He’s a great fighter and world champion. He’s got a great record and for his age has battled many fights. You seriously need to review the Khan fight. He took several HUGE hits, not one and continued well to win. His jaw is as good as the best.
[quote]Nick_Graham wrote:
Perhaps it wasn’t his most notable fight, but how does the Haye vs Mormeck fight get swept under the radar? Mormeck at the tome was the number 1 fighter in the world. Haye has a big mouth, but talent to back that up. Ill concede his rape remark was in very bad taste, BUT calling Solis fat is nothing. I see your argument about the ring being the decider of fitness, but Haye as a professional is entitled to critique another fighter, a grown man and professional.
[/quote]
Who? Who the fuck is Mormeck? Who the fuck cares about cruiserweights? These guys are nobodies. After he lost to Haye, he took a year off and then came back and it took him eight rounds to outpoint Vinny fucking MAddalone- another nobody.
You’re naming these fighters like they’re somebody- they’re nobodies. The whole cruiserweight division is under the radar, and has been since Holyfield. Even Haye’s big mouth couldn’t bring it back to the spotlight, and that’s why he moved up.
Again, I really have to question how much you know about boxing when you’re asking questions like this. But I know the answer, and honestly it’s cause you’re English, and the only two divisions you guys seem to know are super middlweight and cruiserweight, because that’s the only ones English fighters have success in.
Of course, SMW is no longer their domain either.
[quote]
In regards to Khan, I can not disagree more! He’s a great fighter and world champion. He’s got a great record and for his age has battled many fights. You seriously need to review the Khan fight. He took several HUGE hits, not one and continued well to win. His jaw is as good as the best. [/quote]
I watched it numerous times and scored him ahead by one round to a powerful fighter who has no footwork, movement, head movement, or speed.
He hasn’t battled many fights. He’s fought nobodies too- and, like the English press does- he beat up a washed up Barrerra on cuts and was crowned champion of the world.
Please. You guys amaze me.