T Nation

Havoc, Epistane Discontinued?

Anyone hear why supps like Havoc and Epistane have been discontinued? Is this part of the FDA bust on bodybuilding.com last week?

It’s a steroid, not a ‘supplement.’

Yea. It was just a matter of time. The same goes for the next crop anabolic steroids that come in bottles with shiny labels

Its not like the supplement industry is just going to stop selling steroids to desperate teenagers…

They aren’t just going to be like:

“Oh well…fuck me, that was EXTREMELY easy and profitable while it lasted, guess Ill go back to selling creatine and sugar mixes again”

They will just keep coming out with more obscure old steroid derivatives that weren’t chosen for pharmaceutical purposes because they sucked…but there was thousands tested.

All the government is doing is forcing them to play with riskier and riskier fire. They are ALREADY putting out crazy fucking progestins like the “tren” PH’s.

Its only a matter of time till some new bullshit comes out. And then they will sell that for a year or two till it gets banned, then just keep moving along.

…and the same 'ol story will repeat itself…

Androstenedione, Androstenediol, 19-Norandrostenedione, 19-Norandrostenediol anyone?

This is not news, it happened - what… 8 or so years ago with the ‘real’ pro-hormones, some of which are listed above (IIRC) and were just ONE molecule away from anabolic steroids, and were metabolised in the body to become Testosterone or Nandrolone.

The more recent ones were two modifications away IIRC… and so on and so on.

Some people love them, but i had used Methandrostenolone before i used Andro and Norandro and as such they just didn’t do it for me.

[quote]J-J wrote:
Androstenedione, Androstenediol, 19-Norandrostenedione, 19-Norandrostenediol anyone?

This is not news, it happened - what… 8 or so years ago with the ‘real’ pro-hormones, some of which are listed above (IIRC) and were just ONE molecule away from anabolic steroids, and were metabolised in the body to become Testosterone or Nandrolone.

The more recent ones were two modifications away IIRC… and so on and so on.

Some people love them, but i had used Methandrostenolone before i used Andro and Norandro and as such they just didn’t do it for me.[/quote]

The old prohormones kinda sucked, but the new “prohormones” which are mostly actual steroids, effective without any conversion(there are the bolds and winztrols though)are pretty good. Havoc, superdrol, halodrol, and phera plex all worked well and were “real” steroids. I personally think superdrol or whatever you want to call the ingredient is a very strong oral steroid with amazing strength and muscle building effects. It just has many side effects and is pretty toxic. I think most of these companies are voluntarily stopping production of these products because they are under pressure to or they see the writing on the wall. To answer the question, yes I have used “real” oral steroids. I know what they feel like and what they do. I once used 100mg/day dbol for awhile and it was great until I got sick from it and had to quit.
I would put 30mg of SD up against 60mg of Dbol or 100mg of Adrol anytime. Plus SD doesn’t caue bloat.

Superdrol is possibly the most toxic of all the legal ph/ designer steroids, with the tren compound following. Personally I’ve gotten great gains with phera and epi, halodrol clones aint bad either, little to no sides. I’ll never do another tren or superdrol cycle again, even though gains are out of this world the gyno was horrable, even with loads of formastane I’ve still got some.

To answer your question, epistane is not one of the compounds the fda is after right now, just tren, phera, and the eq precurser. Although alot of sites are taking everthing off that even resembles a prohormone. Its getting scary out there for our otc stuff, stock up while you can.

With the new CGMP regulation coming into effect soon everything put into a “supplement” has to be DSHEA legal. We’re seeing the end of the “prohormone/designer steroid” era. This really is the end of the line. The FDA will now be over the shoulders of supplement manufacturers more than ever.

I kind of wonder if epi is safe, the government may not be incredibly efficient, but epi is older than tren on the market (if i recall correctly)
Either way, it isnt brand new. It may not be the target of raids but I think its going to be banned along with the rest. Hell people think that sdrol isnt on the list to be banned either. But I think that will be too.

Schmazz’s thoughts on what will occur seem right. I kind of think that most “legit” companies will follow the rules, but I bet a lot of them will fly under the radar…basically a “semi” legal company that. I glossed over the test result reports on the bb raid and it seemed like there were some completely banned substances being tossed in (correct me if i am wrong) I dont think the age of DS is over (i dont even call them pro hormones anymore, it seems inaccurate for 99% of the substances out there now a days) I think it will just become lower key and harsher.

Since edit is delayed:

I should note that I dont know specifically what CGMP entails, I was just making predictions regarding past govt regulations.

[quote]Pretzel Logic wrote:
J-J wrote:
Androstenedione, Androstenediol, 19-Norandrostenedione, 19-Norandrostenediol anyone?

This is not news, it happened - what… 8 or so years ago with the ‘real’ pro-hormones, some of which are listed above (IIRC) and were just ONE molecule away from anabolic steroids, and were metabolised in the body to become Testosterone or Nandrolone.

The more recent ones were two modifications away IIRC… and so on and so on.

Some people love them, but i had used Methandrostenolone before i used Andro and Norandro and as such they just didn’t do it for me.

The old prohormones kinda sucked, but the new “prohormones” which are mostly actual steroids, effective without any conversion(there are the bolds and winztrols though)are pretty good. Havoc, superdrol, halodrol, and phera plex all worked well and were “real” steroids. I personally think superdrol or whatever you want to call the ingredient is a very strong oral steroid with amazing strength and muscle building effects. It just has many side effects and is pretty toxic. I think most of these companies are voluntarily stopping production of these products because they are under pressure to or they see the writing on the wall. To answer the question, yes I have used “real” oral steroids. I know what they feel like and what they do. I once used 100mg/day dbol for awhile and it was great until I got sick from it and had to quit.
I would put 30mg of SD up against 60mg of Dbol or 100mg of Adrol anytime. Plus SD doesn’t caue bloat.[/quote]

I agree somewhat on the superdrol thing.

That stuff is pretty good.

Ive used to instead of dbol before, the strength gains are similar.

It doesnt feel as nice as dbol does, and the animal aggression just isnt there.

But test + superdrol and test + Dbol feel about the same, and are nearly identical in lean gains.

This makes a certain amount of sense, superdrol is methylated masteron, and is actually pretty close to Drol in many respects.

I prefer the “real” orals, but some of the designers aren’t play stuff.

Superdrol is good as far as gains go, but feels to toxic to me, and gives me mean ass gyno. But I am sensitive to gyno. Tren did it bad too. Since i work in the supplement business I can get them cheap. I plan on stocking up while i can on the ones i know work well for me ( epi and phera ).

Anybody got any other suggestions? Halodrol clones are good too, maybe some of those winny precursers, although not to impressed from the one cycle of it i did. Also love the formastane, dont know why they got to fuck with that, it’s just a great AI, leans me up and hardens, clears gyno alittle.

I have heard that all prohormones available now are being pulled as we speak. From sources I have within the supplement industry many online suppliers and distributors of prohormones are having their products confiscated by the FDA due to the fact that these compounds are now considered “hazardous.”

I have also heard that the FDA might soon go after tribulus and other compounds that elicit “pharmaceutical-type” responses in the human body. It’s just another obvious ploy to protect the pharmaceutical companies from informed citizens going elsewhere for their drugs. Doctors who, for the most part don’t know shit about hormonal manipulation or life extension, are just glorified drug dealers who peddle their drugs in a governmentally approved fashion.

They did the same thing when they tried to villify St. John’s wort. God forbid if people started taking that stuff instead of Zoloft, or whatever anti-depressant their pushing at the moment. Economy’s bad huh? go take some Zoloft and go along your merry way. (sorry for the rant)

It’s funny how superdrol is supposed to be a methylated version of Masteron, since Masteron was originally devoloped as anti-breast cancer drug that blocked estrogen from breast tissues, yet Superdrol gives people nasty gyno. Just a thought:(

Superdrol does not aromatise to estrogen. Not ever, not once, not a bit.

And that goes to show that there is a genuine problem with the marketing of products that lead to side effects in large numbers. The physiological effects are real in many people, yet the biochemistry remains unclear. Use of OTC PTC products often seems linked to Superdrol gyno, but it also happens with users that go by the book and run proper SERMS.

[quote]J-J wrote:
Superdrol does not aromatise to estrogen. Not ever, not once, not a bit.[/quote]

Truths.

Superdrol CAN NEVER cause gyno via aromatization to estrogen, cant happen, impossible.

If you get gyno from superdrol it is because your prolactin is elevated, which is user dependent.

Some guys get elevated prolactin from test, which makes no sense, but happens.
Whenever you fuck around with your endocrine system, shit CAN happen, its rare, but possible.

It may also have some slight progestin activity we are not aware of, similar to drol.

High Estrogen will increase Prolactin.

I agree though that one’s reaction to a specific action can vary with user - to some degree… possibly as we don’t fully understand all that is involved.