T Nation

Havoc (Epi) with TRT


#1

I've searched and found several posts regarding havoc/epistane but none that answered some of the precise questions that I have, as I'm in a bit of a unique situation. I've been on TRT for close to 4 1/2 years now and just in the last two weeks decided to start a Havoc cycle. My intention was to use it for around 4-5 weeks at 30-40mg/day dosages. Some questions of mine....

1) If/when I go in for blood work while on TRT and havoc, will my test levels come back drastically elevated from what they are while on TRT alone? I have an appointment with my doc in ~2 weeks which has nothing to do with TRT, but I'm concerned he will want to check my levels because it's been awhile.

2) Since I'm on TRT and there is in essence no need for PCT, what is the harm in running havoc more frequently than someone not on TRT? The bottle states to run a cycle not to exceed 4 weeks and not again for at minimum 4-6 months after ceasing your cycle. Is this suggestion due to its liver toxicity or to keep someone's natural T production from screwing up (which I'm not worried about). This leads into my final question.

3) I notice amazing vascularity, strength gains, and muscle size/definition while on havoc almost over night (within 1-2 days) even on low dosages. I think a lot of this is in part due to the water retention that TRT alone causes. Just how liver toxic is havoc? How often could I run this stuff at its full recommended dosage without harming my liver and how often could I run it at the minimum (10mg/day or perhaps even EOD) without damaging my liver? I would love it if this stuff wasn't damaging in any way to your liver so I could take it all the time (which I understand it does pose a risk to your liver) because I'm in love with the way it has immediately killed the TRT bloat I usually carry around unless I'm on some crazy keto diet.

Now I KNOW many will say hey just take such n such it'll do the same thing and isn't liver toxic. Well you tell me where to get it and I just may (I'm being a smart ass here not actually asking for a source so please don't delete), but most of the stuff I've seen recommended in threads similar to this one I'm starting is not readily available because it's illegal without a prescription. Havoc is readily available. I've read conflicting things online about stuff from ebay being bunk, but I will confirm right now it is LEGIT. I'm running well under maintenance calories and my strength is holding steady and in some cases increasing.

Anyways, I would appreciate thoughtful insight. Thanks!


#2

I took time to read silly post and I will answer your questions mark my words in stone as they are absolute truth: Doctor will not care you are allowed to run steroids and admit that you are running steroids. No big deal bud bud. Havoc just like winstrol are heavy liver toxic run only when you want to look good for the ladies or impress the other fellas at the gymnasium. You will notice when your liver and kidneys are stressed you shall feel tired, bloated, not hungry, not want to train at gym and generally sick. This is when you stop your little havoc understand ? Do not worry so much friend. Dismissed.


#3

[quote]Gh15 wrote:
I took time to read silly post and I will answer your questions mark my words in stone as they are absolute truth: Doctor will not care you are allowed to run steroids and admit that you are running steroids. No big deal bud bud. Havoc just like winstrol are heavy liver toxic run only when you want to look good for the ladies or impress the other fellas at the gymnasium. You will notice when your liver and kidneys are stressed you shall feel tired, bloated, not hungry, not want to train at gym and generally sick. This is when you stop your little havoc understand ? Do not worry so much friend. Dismissed.[/quote]

I believe you failed to read the part in the OP where I requested “thoughtful insight” - not sure if this response was meant to be a joke or if you’re just…special. My questions were specific and IMHO not “silly.” I also will mention that I have no intention of taking havoc/epi beyond what I initially stated, which is 4-5 weeks. The post is meant to gain more information before doing anything in the future. Thanks for literally nothing.


#4

i ran havoc/Epi a couple times, and the last time i had serious joint issues.

it’s gonna stress your liver, based off the dose and frequency you use it. if your estradiol was high enough that you dumped that much water on it, you prolly need to get your doc to manage that for you, or do it on your own. but since you’re on Havoc now, it’s gonna screw up your labs, as far as that’s concerned…

btw, Havoc/Epi aren’t “readily available” in many places anymore… they’re a controlled substance in the US now.