T Nation

Having an Athletic Edge Over the Crowd

[quote]NikH wrote:
Oh, and you’re 16 - I wouldn’t go too hardcore on weightlifting yet incase you hope to grow a little bit taller.[/quote]
Sorry, can’t let this slide through. This is false.

A well-designed weight training plan will absolutely not stunt a kid’s height. Inappropriate lifting may cause damage, but a young dude can definitely work up to going “hardcore on weightlifting” as long as he uses his brain.

The biggest factor in smart lifting for kids vs. dumb lifting for kids is pushing sets up to or beyond muscular failure. Always keep a rep or two in the tank and there’s basically zero problems.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]NikH wrote:
Oh, and you’re 16 - I wouldn’t go too hardcore on weightlifting yet incase you hope to grow a little bit taller.[/quote]
Sorry, can’t let this slide through. This is false.

A well-designed weight training plan will absolutely not stunt a kid’s height. Inappropriate lifting may cause damage, but a young dude can definitely work up to going “hardcore on weightlifting” as long as he uses his brain.

The biggest factor in smart lifting for kids vs. dumb lifting for kids is pushing sets up to or beyond muscular failure. Always keep a rep or two in the tank and there’s basically zero problems.[/quote]

Well for me “training hardcore” doesn’t mean leaving two reps in the tank, but I guess the word can be interpreted in different ways. For a teenage in gyms, with other teenagers, it will be hard to not go and try 1MR PR’s.

I totally agree what you said about smart lifting, but I think its improbable considering his opening post notions a message of wanting to be the strongest in the GYM.

16 years of age is a good age to start hardcore training. We have several football players roughly that have (16-18) who can clean 275lbs or more and one who can clean 315. We also have a 15 years old hockey player who can push press 255lbs for 5 reps.

Get good technique on the big basics… squats, deads, bench, push press, power clean

THEN (only when you have good technique) get strong on the big basics

Do lots of various types of jumps… the better you are at jumping the faster and quicker you will be. And being fast is MUCH more important than being big (even than being strong).

I also love Chris’ suggestions to do carries. But I’ll go a step further… do not limit yourself to farmer’s walk… buy a wheelbarrow and do wheelbarrow walking, also do yoke carries (put a loaded bar on your shoulders and walk)… these carries can be done either for speed (fastest you can cover 30-40 yards), strength (heaviest weight you can carry over 30-40 yards) or conditioning (max distance you can cover in 2 to 5 minute sets).

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:
16 years of age is a good age to start hardcore training. We have several football players roughly that have (16-18) who can clean 275lbs or more and one who can clean 315. We also have a 15 years old hockey player who can push press 255lbs for 5 reps.

Get good technique on the big basics… squats, deads, bench, push press, power clean

THEN (only when you have good technique) get strong on the big basics

Do lots of various types of jumps… the better you are at jumping the faster and quicker you will be. And being fast is MUCH more important than being big (even than being strong).

I also love Chris’ suggestions to do carries. But I’ll go a step further… do not limit yourself to farmer’s walk… buy a wheelbarrow and do wheelbarrow walking, also do yoke carries (put a loaded bar on your shoulders and walk)… these carries can be done either for speed (fastest you can cover 30-40 yards), strength (heaviest weight you can carry over 30-40 yards) or conditioning (max distance you can cover in 2 to 5 minute sets).[/quote]
WOW! Those are some strong kids. I love that they are doing explosive lifts at that age. When I was in school there was a HUGE focus on squatting and we were strong. But the most a was able to power clean was 225 when I was squatting 550 or so…

15yo pushpressing 255lbs for 5reps? idliketo see that, and a xray of his spine from the side…

[quote]NikH wrote:
15yo pushpressing 255lbs for 5reps? idliketo see that, and a xray of his spine from the side…[/quote]

At that age he is one of the biggest freak that I’ve seen. And not that physically huge either.

[quote]Christian Thibaudeau wrote:

[quote]NikH wrote:
15yo pushpressing 255lbs for 5reps? idliketo see that, and a xray of his spine from the side…[/quote]

At that age he is one of the biggest freak that I’ve seen. And not that physically huge either. [/quote]
I went to school with a guy who squatted 630 when he was 15… he did it his freshman year at the state meet… physical freak! Ended up doing about an 830… He was huge though LOL kinda looked like Mark Henry! LOL

Hello TNATION, and CT,

I found a forum to add to. I am new to TNation (like 3 hrs in) and have been body weight training for 3 yrs and weight training for about 8 months. I jumped into this form just because I relate. I am 14 and have been playing Baseball year round since age 5, Rec. ball, travel ball, All stars, and now JV and Legion ball.

I also play basketball and looking to get started in Football next summer. I play 2nd base, backup catcher and pitcher but Dad won’t let me show coach my pitching. Something about coach seen my ability on mound and fear of burning up my arm. Over the last 4 months of HS weight training I have seen my body change. Some due to HS weight train and some due to puberty.

I am loving the change and just pushes me to keep working. I am 5’6", 140lbs, and about 9% BF. I feel where Grant.Fowler10 is coming from. Hey Grant, work your butt off and don’t think those other guys are not in the same boat as you. Trust me they are questioning themselves too on “why ain’t I as fast as him or as strong or as athletic”? That is called competition and in that is what makes you better.

Anyways I am not the strongest and sure as heck not the fastest actually 2nd to slowest. My 40yrd sprint is 5.4 and 60 yrd is 8 flat. Coach wants to see me put on some mass and strength and get faster. My personal goal is hit the 40 in 4.70 by Feb. The only thing I have going for me is a hot glove and bat, but a 5.7/40 and my size is not going to keep me on the field and my butt was not designed to sit on a flat bench.

My Dad has transformed the back garage into probably every thing I need. Full squat rack, bench, 450lbs of Olympic weights, 410lbs of standard weights, dumb bells, bands, treadmill…etc. there is even a P-bar and rings because my brother does gymnastics. Great for dips and pull ups and what ever else you can come up with. Weight training class at HS did some good but after training with Dad I learned it was a joke.

Some what effective joke but coaches could care less about form and your progress not to mention what the heck we were doing. Dad was not happy about somethings. Like when I had back pain from squats and dead lifts and said I need a belt or how they said arching your back to the point of just your toes on the floor and shoulders are touching the bench, when benching heavy weight.

    OK, Lets get down to it. My dad likes this program, and has approved me to join and educate myself. We have dedicated 8 months of hardcore training to reach my goals by start of Baseball next season (Feb). My first goal is put on size/mass. 2nd goal strength. and 3rd goal speed lost of it. I have been told mass and strength training with goals of also gaining "SPEED" is almost impossible. 

Dad says not so…actually his favorite phrase is “The only thing in impossible is I’m possibly” This is our monthly agenda for 8 months. Mon, Wed, Fri weight training and Tues, Thur, Sat Plyometrics for agility.

June-mass,strength,power
July-mass,strength,power
Aug-mass,strength,power
Sept-lean up
Oct-mass,strength,power
Nov-mass-strength,power
Dec-lean up
Jan-lean up
Feb-Ball season starts

My questions are, will the I,BodyBuilder program help me reach my goals? Is this program designed to give me strength along with mass or just mass with low strength levels? I do not want to put on large amount of mass and sacrifice strength. As a baseball player I need to stay agile and have quick twitch muscle fibers but as I stated I need to put on Mass and strength and have 8 months to do it.

If this is not the program for me then please direct me to what will help me reach my goals. If this is the program can it work along with our weekly schedule of Mon, Wed, Fri weight training or do I need to stick to the I,builder program like glue.

Thanks in advance to all experts on future advice.
Dawson7

Hi Dawson,

i don’t know who told you gaining speed and strength at the same time is impossible but they are wrong lol.

I think you should look at CT’s Layer System… you will literally build muscle, strength and explosiveness as fast as possible, and having such a good home gym set up means the Layer System is perfect for you.

so yeah look up the layer system, select your exercises, LEARN PERFECT TECHNIQUE, then focus on progress and you will get bigger and more powerful very quickly.

in future though, you should post in the actual forum, rather than hijack someone elses post… just saying.

As a coach I appreciate your willingness to train and improve. I know most of our athletes don’t train hard or start and quit.
My lifting partner is a 35 year old softball player who has been following this program. He is hitting the ball so much further teammates are asking him what he did differently. Its not the same as hitting a baseball but it is power.

This site will help you. Good luck

Iboro21
Thanks for the info I will check it out and try not to overwhelm myself. Man there is some good stuff in here. I must have spent 4 hour yesterday reading and watching videos. The program my Dad has me on is close to Westside for Skinny Bastards. The Speed vs strength issue was.

Trying to put on large amounts of Mass and at the same time get faster. I apoligize to Grant.Fowler10 did not hijack your forum on purpose. I tried posting my own with same info but must have done something wrong, it never showed up.

Dawson,

regarding your speed vs strength issue, you just need to make sure that every pound of muscle you add is functional… anyone thats been on this forum a while will know what ‘high performance mass’ is, but basically just follow the layer system, and as you get bigger, you will get stronger and more explosive at the same time.

Trying to find that Layer System, not having any luck. Is there a site url you can give me?


Try this post

[quote]bobd78 wrote:


Try this post[/quote]

@Dawson,

in your situation, i would suggest doing the max muscle layering until you’ve reached about 75% of your ‘size’ goals, then switch to the strength focused layering to complete your size goals whilst maximizing strength and explosiveness.

just FYI, when you switch to the strength layering (Eventually), you’ll probably find that size comes just as fast (initially) since the reduction in HDL work will allow some supercomensation to take place…

just make sure your diet is in check, especially your calories around your workouts!! since you want to be fast, try to minimize fat loss (easy to run fast without excess weight!)

good luck to you sir,

complex or simple, no matter what your program is, progression is necessary. Aim for perfect form, avoid failure, and lift frequently. Eat healthy and often. Refrain from booze, tobacco and lack of sleep.

Look, as young people, you are now in a stage in your life that you will try to recreate the rest of your life. At 16 you may make gains on a silly program and persuade yourself you have found the holy grail. Scratch that thinking. Follow a program from someone who has experience.

Here is another clue. If you find a lift or a rep range that you kinda hate, you may have found a temporary holy grail. Improve on that lift or that rep range for a while.

Volume is key, but do not go overboard. Again, find a designed program. Best of luck to you. You’ll be setting up the rest of your lifting career in these few years. Take advantage of it.

[quote]jp_dubya wrote:
complex or simple, no matter what your program is, progression is necessary. Aim for perfect form, avoid failure, and lift frequently. Eat healthy and often. Refrain from booze, tobacco and lack of sleep.

Look, as young people, you are now in a stage in your life that you will try to recreate the rest of your life. At 16 you may make gains on a silly program and persuade yourself you have found the holy grail. Scratch that thinking. Follow a program from someone who has experience.

Here is another clue. If you find a lift or a rep range that you kinda hate, you may have found a temporary holy grail. Improve on that lift or that rep range for a while.

Volume is key, but do not go overboard. Again, find a designed program. Best of luck to you. You’ll be setting up the rest of your lifting career in these few years. Take advantage of it. [/quote]

[quote]krummdiddy wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
If you want to be better than everyone else, you have to work harder than everyone else. There are no secrets.

Also, stop worrying about your “lower bicep region” and “calve hyperytophy”[/quote]
To many people think they will jump high if they have bigger calf muscles… that is false, jumping come from the Posterior chain… so start doing high pulls!![/quote]

just picked up on this…

krumm this could not be further from the truth. i’ve studied biomechanics for 3 years and let me just say that calf muscles prolong the application of ground reaction forces and have a significant effect on take off velocity. they prolong the total body impulse achieved and should not be neglected. having said that, you are correct when suggesting high pulls as they include strong calf contraction for the exact same reason we need them when jumping/sprinting.

CT is there any program in particular that you recommend for someone whose main goal is athleticism?

[quote]lboro21 wrote:

[quote]krummdiddy wrote:

[quote]Chris87 wrote:
If you want to be better than everyone else, you have to work harder than everyone else. There are no secrets.

Also, stop worrying about your “lower bicep region” and “calve hyperytophy”[/quote]
To many people think they will jump high if they have bigger calf muscles… that is false, jumping come from the Posterior chain… so start doing high pulls!![/quote]

just picked up on this…

krumm this could not be further from the truth. i’ve studied biomechanics for 3 years and let me just say that calf muscles prolong the application of ground reaction forces and have a significant effect on take off velocity. they prolong the total body impulse achieved and should not be neglected. having said that, you are correct when suggesting high pulls as they include strong calf contraction for the exact same reason we need them when jumping/sprinting.[/quote]
I never said we should not do them at all… but there are cats at the gym doing calf raise trying to dunk…