T Nation

Have You Ever Beta Orbited a Girl


I think your initial claim (if I’m not mistaken), that woman want and enjoy sex just as much as men, is accurate and probably doesn’t need much debate.

I think the quoted statement can be thoroughly debated which I have no interest in doing.


There’s all kind of stuff about that, not the least of which is emotional.

Aside from the biological actions, there is an entire layer of emotional context that each person develops (men and women) based on previous experiences. That’s where things can get really complicated.


what about reproduction makes sex feel good? I’d say sex feels good is because a large concentration of nerve endings are in the genitals which produce chemicals in the brain that make us feel good…reproduction is a by-product of sex when a female egg is fertilized with a male’s sperm … you’re conflating the feeling of sex with reproduction without explaining WHY reproduction has led to sex feeling good … it’s my understanding that not all mammals enjoy sex the same way humans enjoy sex … from what I’ve read the only other mammal that has sex for pleasure are dolphins, if there are more then I’d think it’s a short list…

Point is you’re jumping to the conclusion that sex feels good because of reproduction when it doesn’t seem like that’s necessarily the case considering humans can and do have sex without reproducing … matter of fact I’d say sex feels good in spite of reproduction not because of it

I’d love to hear your understanding though … I’m not an evolutionary biologist and have a very limited understanding about why sex feels goods - I do believe, though, it has a tangential relationship with our drive to procreate - probably because raising a human baby is an invested, fucking difficult and long process compared with raising other mammals…the trade off would have to be that sex feels that good that, even after going through having one kid, I’d have to have some sort of amazing trade off to want to engage in that shit again … especially if I were a woman … I can only imagine how good sex feels for a woman considering they have to go through a helluva lot more biologically speaking than I do … so again I disagree - I don’t think sex feels good BECAUSE of reproduction, I’d argue it’s IN SPITE OF reproduction …

Ultimately, though, I don’t think either one of us are knowledgeable enough to agree or disagree with your premise so no further discussion can really be had if that’s the basis of the conversation … agree?


i’ll read your post more in detail and respond more thoroughly later this evening when i have a bit more time.

i’ll give you a tl;dr of my reasoning for now tho:

what you have explained in the first part of your post is why sex feels good on a “mechanical” level, that is, what makes it feel good (nerve endings, chemical substances, and the like that you listed), but what i’m referring to is actually the reason why we are made in such a way that ultimately makes sex feel good to us.

we could make the same argument for eating, couldn’t we. we know why eating makes us feel good on a biological level (hormones, taste buds, and all the satiety mechanisms and the like), but why are we made in such a way that has eating feel good? because if we didn’t feel pleasure from eating, we probably wouldn’t do it, and we as a species would have gone extinct long before figuring out that we needed food to survive.

same for sex. it’s quite a weird act from a mechanical standpoint if you think about it, but we are driven to it by our instincts. why do we have such instincts? well, i would guess because the reward system we have built-in is what makes us do the stuff that keeps us (as individuals and as a species) alive. if sex hurt, or just didn’t feel good, we probably wouldn’t do it.

sure, nowadays we are evolved enough as a species to recognize some things that are good for us despite not feeling good (a very silly example would be veggies. some dislike them, but they are an important component to keeping one healthy for the most part) and we do those anyway. but they aren’t “core” things, strictly necessary to our survival, like breathing, because if it had been the case, we would have gone extinct long before getting to a point where we are advanced enough to recognize those things as useful in the first place.

I’m a bit tired today so this post was probably a mess, but i hope it makes some sense to you. again, i’ll get back to it later if you want to keep on with this discussion


From what I recall the prefrontal cortex doesn’t reach maturity until 24-25, however Im fully aware I’m not an adult, nor do I want to be one yet, I’m at that age everyone wishes they could be again for some reason.

Been there, done that



It’s OK man. Have fun while it lasts. Not saying that in a bad light at all.



Would you rather be raped by one polar bear sized goose, or gang raped by 20 geese-sized polar bears?


followed by a wall o’ text hahaha … I don’t think you fully get what tl:dr means but I’ll read through your post :slight_smile:

I have thought about it and I don’t think it’s mechanically weird tbh … have you ever tried to manually pollinate a squash plant? I suggest you do so…

are you suggesting eating vegetables isn’t necessary to our survival? I’m confused what your point is saying breathing is necessary to our survival but eating isn’t? Are you saying we can get the nutrients elsewhere? Technically, farming isn’t necessary to our survival but it sure as hell has helped us proliferate to the point we are here now …

homo habilis existed for over 1 million years without agriculture and probably weren’t advanced enough to recognize what you’re suggest we are advanced enough to recongize yet we’ve only been a species for about 500,000 years … again I’m not sure what your point is - consuming a healthy balance and variety of macro and micro nutrients is absolutley essential for our survival akin to breathing

we’ll chalk it up to that because I’m now more confused about what your point is than I was before


I gotta say bud, I disagree with you here. I absolutely do not wish to be your age again. Life now is magnitudes better than when I was your age. by at least a factor of 100 … Whoever is telling you this shit isn’t someone I’d take advice from about anything ever.


i do understand what a tl;dr is: in fact, the full version of my post would have been much, much longer than this.

anyway, i won’t go further into the discussion because you’re clearly trying to disagree with me at any cost and pretending you don’t understand.

i said eating large amounts of veggies isn’t as immediately necessary to survival as breathing is and you turned that into, “you said eating isn’t necessary for survival while breathing is,” so really, i’m just wasting energies here and as always there’s no winning an internet argument.

have a nice day


Speak for yourself.



You’re absolutely right, I do tend to use this as a crutch to dismiss people and I’ll tell you why. On a myriad of occasions I’ve tried socially engraining myself only to be hurtfully rejected, however this isn’t due to a lack of social skills, it’s due to the fact I’m in a new school full of kids who have known each other since they were little kids, they’ve known me for less than a year, they all have their cliques and friend groups established, therefore they make no effort at all to establish me as a friend, and my efforts to become engrained as a friend have been futile. Earlier on you mentioned that teenagers were a bunch of sociopaths, I’m aware this was a joke however I do think that for one reason or another, teenagers don’t seem to think about others, it isn’t due to a purposeful lack of remorse, it’s more related to that they just don’t think about the consequences or effects their actions can have on others (I think). Anyway I rationalise the rejection with the thought of “well if they don’t want to include me why should I give them the light of day anyway”, I still have friends overseas where I used to live.


I’m not pretending … you’re not explaining your position well enough for me to really understand what you’re talking about … but I’m fine if you want to throw in the towel … it’s all in good fun and discussion anyway my man

this is unfair of you to assume … you do not know my motivations for engaging with you

No you did not say that at all. what you said was:

No where in there do you mention anything about the amount of vegetables one is eating. You mention individual preferences vary wrt taste and that while they’re important to keeping one healthy “they aren’t ‘core’ things, strictly necessary to our survival, like breathing”

to which I said

It’s fine if you don’t want to continue our discussion but don’t misrepresent what was said … I find it off putting and disingenuous - especially for such a light hearted silly conversation…


I would let them little polar bears run a train on me.


been there

been there, but it is also due to

You inability to fit in is due to a lack of social skills among other factors. Don’t dismiss this aspect of it… it may not be the most impactful aspect of the interactions, but it is a factor.

Don’t do that man. Don’t look at it that way. Learn from it. Sure, you may have been unsuccessful but it’s not JUST because these people happened to be cliquey. I moved around a bit when i was a kid and found myself at a new school when I was 13 … hardly an ideal age to be starting over. It’s tough - I get it and I failed at making friends at first too but then I learned and and made progress and then made some pretty good friends.

Maybe the time horizon you had to work in was a huge factor but you can’t dismiss you lack of social skills away because of that. And don’t take what I’m saying as you have no social skills … you just happened to lack the necessary ones needed to make progress with the people you found yourself surrounded by in the time you had to work within the given constraints.

true, you can’t make people want to be your friend but you probably also didn’t put forth the effort for them to want to. You’re looking for excuses as to why and placing blame on things you can’t control. And it’s valid but it seems to me that you’re doing it to avoid looking at your own social shortcomings IN THIS PARTICULAR SCENARIO.

Might I suggest just examining how you went about it, what seemed to kind of work and what didn’t at all. Again, just because you find yourself in the situation you do right now (seemingly by no decision of your own … I’d assume your parents moved so you moved) doesn’t mean you can’t grow and improve from it. Understand why what you tried didn’t work and kind of move on from it with a bit more insight into yourself and other people. You a military brat?


hahaha no, I’m a relatively good kid, I’ve moved multiple times during my life due to parents job requirements.


Gotcha … and military brat is just a colloquialism for kids whose parents are in the military haha not necessarily implying you were a bad kid or w/e … you seem to be fairly well adjusted and able to have complex conversations from what I’ve seen

Before today I don’t think i would’ve pegged you as being a teenager


I thought you were referring to me being in millitary academy or boarding school, I knew a few kids whose parents shipped them off to millitary academy due to behavioral problems.


To each their own?

I’ve been in relationships where it seemed like the woman could never get enough. If we’re talking from person experience, the women I’ve engaged with wanted and liked sex just as much or even more than me.