T Nation

Have to Quit TRT Because of Skin eczema

I also worry about the low ACTH and cortisol. This test was done in the morning!


I just read the adrenal fatigue article. This is really complicated
stuff. How’d you even know if you can combine herbs with prescription
antidepressants?

You can’t count on a doc to help you with all this. You need to take responsibility for your own health and start reading.

I had been on and off ADs for years. A couple of them did more harm than good. Lexapro killed T levels and libido. Effexor was absolutely toxic and a real pain to get off. Proxac was a waste other than weight loss. Welbutrin (sp?) was the only one that I didn’t get any sides from and worked ok without continually upping the dose. I will never touch another AD again. To may sides and most mess with with too many important functions in the body.

I got off of all ADs and started looking at low T, thyroid and adrenal insufficiency. I also did neurotransmitter testing to see exactly where I was at. Why on earth would docs not do this before suggesting a AD? If you do it through neuroscience, they’ll also recommend supplements to correct any abnormalities. It’s also pretty easy to find info on raising particular neurotransmitters via supplementation.

You keep assuming it’s the T that’s giving you issues when it’s still really low. This makes no sense. Your DHT is much higher in the range than your T, and DHT is more androgenic than T. If you believe androgens are making things worse, this is where you need to look. Gels will raise DHT much more than injections.

Hello,
so you think that DHT makes the eczema worse and not testo itself?
Or could they both make it worse and in my case it’s the DHT which was elevated due to the gel?
The thing is, this eczema is VERY serious especially because of my depression. It’s nothing
to be taken lightly. Maybe some people think such an eczema is no big deal but it is especially
when it’s in the face and when you see that it’s spreading. This creates an awful fear in me.

I wish I knew what to do. I feel like maybe this is a sign to leave my hands off TRT and stop
it before I create even more damage.

What if for example I start losing hair on TRT? Finasterid and minoxidil are both dangerous
from what I read so this means there is nothing you can do against hairloss and this would
also be a totally depressing side effect.

As for measuring neurotransmitters,
what did you do? Did they check them in the blood or urine?
I read that you cannot really measure what’s going on in the brain. So I don’t know if there
are really reliable tests which tell you how it looks like in the brain. But I’m really pissed
off that doctors simply prescribe ADs but never do any labs.

And did you treat your thyroid and adrenals under the “supervision of a doctor” or on your
own through supplements?

[quote]wwally wrote:
Hello,
so you think that DHT makes the eczema worse and not testo itself? Or could they both make it worse and in my case it’s the DHT which was elevated due to the gel?
[/quote]
I don’t know anything about eczema. You said severity could be androgen related. DHT is more androgenic than T. You have very low T and DHT in the upper part of the range. Seems pretty simple.

Well then go ahead and do that. A sign? Really? Your defeatist attitude has me convinced you definitely need more T. Be a man and take care of yourself.

Worry about it if it happens. Much less likely on a sensible on a proper program that includes injections. Again, less DHT with injections.

Urine. No, you can’t really see what’s going on the brain. You can see what the body is excreting though. Same with blood work for many things you test. You can’t see what’s actually going on in organs or tissues. There is no smoking gun but there are tests that can provide us data points to work from. It’s certainly better that just trying something, getting a ‘sign’ that it’s not working, quitting and never really understanding what it is really doing and how to adjust.

[quote]
And did you treat your thyroid and adrenals under the “supervision of a doctor” or on your
own through supplements?[/quote]
Adrenals on my own with supplements. Improvements verified by testing and significant symptom improvements. Not really doing anything for adrenals now. TRT has taken care of that. I was an absolute mess before TRT. I was on the very edge of disaster in about every part of my life. It’s been absolutely life changing. Saved my carrier, marriage and relationship with my kids. There is no part of my life that’s not better, and I’m not even done tweaking my program for optimal results.

Not doing anything for thyroid at the moment, other than iodine. Doc thinks I have hashis, but we are going to wait until TRT is stable (it take quite a bit of tweaking) before we address any thyroid issues. I would say my thyroid issues are mild at the moment, so not too concerned with holding off. Much easier to deal with one thing at a time.

WW: Do not dismiss the fact that spreading alcohol or the other inactive ingredients over large amounts of skin could create systemic effects that could affect skin elsewhere.

Thyroid: TSH jumping around. Read ‘thyroid basics’. What is your iodine intake. Did you introduce vitamins with iodine or start using iodized salt between the two sets of labs? Check body temperatures.

Yes, DHT can be a major factor. Transdermal is worse for that and injected the least.

Injections can deliver very steady T levels. Read the protocol for injections sticky. With frequent injections and multiple small injection deposits with overlapping release curves, you will get steady levels.

Transdermal T creates very large short acting peaks in T.

TSH jumping around could be hashimoto.

Check TPO and TGAB.

@ dhickey

My concern with those labs which offer these extraordinary tests is that
they only want to make money and tell the people they lack neurotransmitters
and now they have to buy all their special supplements. What if they only rip
people off with their stuff?

@ Ksman

Not between those 2 labs I did NOT take iodine salt. I have been using iodine
salt for the past few weeks now. But isn’t iodine bad for people who have hashimoto?

Recently I was feeling cold during the day and my feet were cold and I measured temperature
and I had 36.9 celsius which seems pretty normal to me. How often should one measure temp?

The problem is that I don’t think that my doc will agree self-injections.

@ Tunapancake

I had TPO and TR-antibodies done. And the ultrasound was also normal.
Not sure what else I could do.

TPO-AB 10.5 Norm: 0 - 35 U/ml
TR-AB 0.31 Norm: 0 - 16 IU/l

I really don’t know what to do. I have been off the gel for 4 days now. I am
sick of this shit. I also cannot say that I feel worse than before lol.
No matter if on or off the gel I feel as crappy all the time.

[quote]wwally wrote:
@ dhickey

My concern with those labs which offer these extraordinary tests is that
they only want to make money and tell the people they lack neurotransmitters
and now they have to buy all their special supplements. What if they only rip
people off with their stuff?
[/quote]
then don’t do it. Keep doing what your doing if it’s working so well. I’d rather get some testing done than continually pump myself full of toxic ADs without knowing what they do or if I even need them.

You don’t think you’re getting ripped off now? Paying for meds and doctor visits while still suffering?

Be a man and take initiative in their health friend. Have the doctor to hell. If I were you arrange testosterone cypionate and inject SubQ each day.

[quote]wwally wrote:
By the way, my doc told me that at our next appointment he wants to start
and give me my first 250mg injection. What do I say? Shall I say no I don’t
want that or what do I do?

But then what if he says that other than that he can only offer me nebido?
Nebido will have a smoother curve but this stuff lasts 3 months. If I then
should get too big side effects then I cannot just get off it.

I really don’t know what to do. I have been off the gel for 4 days now. I am
sick of this shit. I also cannot say that I feel worse than before lol.
No matter if on or off the gel I feel as crappy all the time.[/quote]

Firstly gird yourself like a man. You are alive and have it better than someone without arms or legs or cancer.

Listen to KSman and follow his advice. The vast majority of doctors are not on androgel or any TRT and have little knowledge on the subject so read as much as you can here.

hi guys, the big problem is
I’m not in the US where you just walk into a TRT clinic and
then get all meds and injections you need!
I cannot even get AIs without the help of a doctor!

Do you all doctor yourself and just inject stuff on your own or how do you do this?

And is being off the testosterone now unhealthy?
I really don’t see any sense in going on with the gel now.

At the moment I cannot do anything cause getting 250mg every 3 weeks
also is no solution.

Or should I go for 250mg until I know what to do else?

Well, you can either try and convince your doctor to put you on a sensable testing and treatment plan, or try and find a new doc. This challenge exists here. I when through 4 docs over a few years before finding someone capable and willing to help me.

You could see if it’s easier to get them to treat adrenal or thyroid issues. You’re just going to have to take some initiative. Read a ton and feel available doctors out. Find one that’s willing to treat any of these areas in a sensible way and you’ll probably make progress.

You can also try life changes and supplementation. You seem to be a bit of a mess, so this is going to be a lot more work and require a ton of research. You could start here http://www.lef.org/protocols/index.htm for a ton of info and suggestion on different conditions. Really tough to tell you where to start. I started with digestive health because I figured it was a good foundation for everything else I needed to improve. I then moved on to neurotransmitters and my adrenal insufficiency. This got me off ADs and at least feeling alive again. I may have been able to continue to make progress without TRT, but quite frankly I just needed to feel good again after being a mess for so long. I’m still trying to sort the underlying causes of my neurotransmitter, adrenal, thyroid and endocrine issues. TRT just gives me some breathing room.

If all else fails, you could try some meds that are easier to get yourself. SERM, HCG, AI, T4, T3, HC etc. Not sure what the risk is in your country, but here it’s pretty easy to get these from a research chemical company or overseas pharmacy. Certainly not legal without a prescription, but very little risk of anyone hassling you on such trivial drugs when their busy chasing pain killers and heavier stuff. It’s pretty tough to make a moral argument against doing what it takes to live a healthy happy life.

Hello,
but how do I even know if I have something with my adrenals? What’s the best test to find
it out once and for all?

Are you saying you’d take SERM, HCG, AI, T4, T3, HC on your own without the supervision of a doctor?
This sounds really dangerous to me. When you take hormones you gotta get labs and see where you are and you can
only get labs when you have a doctor.

shot in the dark, but: overweight/sedentary? diet replete with “healthy” (<-sarcasm) grains, refined sugars/starches and processed vegetable oils? A ton of auxiliary health shit vanished when I kicked that stuff in favor of meat, veg & saturated/hi-O3 MU fats–including a 5-yr dependence on SSRIs and chronic inflammatory skin conditions (rashes, flakiness/eczema/SD).

IME, echoing dhickey, TRT has major transformative potential but it can be rough sledding at first & needs time to get dialed in (& I would argue the endpoint should probably include injections 1x/wk or more, hCG + AI). Also you need a comprehensive, integrated approach re diet, exercise and other possible endocrine factors (thyroid, cortisol, etc), undertaken with a similar long-term mindset.

Finding a doc who will support you in these goals is paramount, IMO. If there’s no one local who proactively does this, then maybe you can at least find someone open to setting up a consult with a more distant ‘guru’ who is providing an up-to-date standard of care. Even if you had to make a one-time pilgrimage for initial labs & assessment, it would still be well worth it.

I don’t know what you mean.
Shall I now also take cortisol blocker and thyroid meds?
I cannot simply take something with even knowing if I need it.
This is really pretty confusing and worrying. I don’t want to
end up taking 10 different meds daily for 10 different things.

[quote]wwally wrote:
Hello,
but how do I even know if I have something with my adrenals? What’s the best test to find
it out once and for all?
[/quote]
the 4x cortisol test from canary club, like I mentioned a few responses ago.

I am not saying to take all of these. I am saying that each may be an option if you really need them. If you educate yourself on any ailments you might uncover, you’ll likely be able to treat yourself with more competence than most doctors.

This might be the case where you are at. You need to investigate. I can get whatever testing I want here. I have to pay out of pocket when I do it on my own, but everything I need is available.

[quote]wwally wrote:
I don’t know what you mean.
Shall I now also take cortisol blocker and thyroid meds?
I cannot simply take something with even knowing if I need it.
This is really pretty confusing and worrying. I don’t want to
end up taking 10 different meds daily for 10 different things.[/quote]

You need to start reading about neurotransmitters, thyroid disorders, adrenal insufficiency, and hormone replacement therapy. You don’t need to take action on all or any of them immediately. Just start reading. take some interest in the serious physical ailments you appear to have. The lef link I gave you is a good start.

Then you need proper testing to evaluate these conditions. If you can’t find a competent doctor to help you navigate which to address first, you’ll need to take the initiative yourself. My suggestion would be to start with an honest assessment of lifestyle. DIET, exercise, SLEEP, stress etc.

I would then find a doctor(s) that help address your mental issues. I don’t know what meds your on, but most ADs are probably going to complicate any of the ailments listed above. Therapy, neurotransmitter testing and proper supplementation should get you off the ADs and having you feeling better in general unless you have very serious issues here. I did this on my own, but would never suggest someone else do this without a doctors supervision. I never had thoughts of harming myself or anyone else, so I could handle temporary worsening of symptoms and serious AD withdrawals.

I would then address adrenal insufficiency. Improvement in this area can make a significant improvement if you are really out of whack.

Thyroid issues would ideally come next. I wasted a lot of time trying to address this before adrenal issues.

All of this may be much easier to sort through if you can on a proper program of Test injection, HCG, and an AI. The adrenal issues appear to have sorted themselves out for me when starting this. Depression and anxiety (temporarily got worse) are also not and issue any more and I no longer treat.

[quote]wwally wrote:
I don’t know what you mean.
Shall I now also take cortisol blocker and thyroid meds?
I cannot simply take something with even knowing if I need it.
This is really pretty confusing and worrying. I don’t want to
end up taking 10 different meds daily for 10 different things.[/quote]

I think you need to do some more reading.