T Nation

Have to Lose Weight to Lose Fat?


#1

I know people are always debating whether or not you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time. Ive heard many strength coaches state that with good nutrition and training it is very possible. But is it better to alternate cutting, and building, or can I truly just do the two at the same time?

Im at 190lbs currently and around 13% BF. I would like to lose 10lbs of fat, and add 10lbs of muscle. And yes I bought CW's 10/10 e-book.

Im not following his plan though, as im already 3 weeks into another plan, but I thought id give his a read, just to see what its about.


So my main question is, do i need to cut calories, along with carb cycling to lose fat, or can I just keep the calories high for building, and carb cycle to achieve the fat loss, while simultaneously building muscle.


#2

[quote]dankid wrote:
Im not following his plan though, as im already 3 weeks into another plan, but I thought id give his a read, just to see what its about.
[/quote]
Let go of the rock.

You found the program that has the same damn name as your goals and you’re afraid to change things!


#3

“If you chase two rabbits, both will escape.”


#4

From my experience I don’t buy the whole gain muscle and lose fat at the same time. I’ve put on muscle, but I’ve also put on fat. You need to consume a lot of calories to grow…that’s the bottom line.

I use to think about losing fat and gaining muscle. Now I see that your focus should be on one or the other. It’s WISHFUL thinking to want both simultaneously. Sure, there’s the few that can maybe do it, but they’re not the norm.

To achieve your 10/10 goal you should bulk first then cut.


#5

There are many on the Anabolic/Metabolic diet losing fat and gaining muscle. I am one of the many using that “diet”.


#6

Ya im really not sure what to think on this one. Ive heard enough people state that you can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time to know its not a myth.

But…

Theres a part of me thats thinking it would be much easier to do one then the other.

Then theres those that say you should bulk before you cut, and those that say you should cut before you bulk.

Now i know with carb cycling and a good workout plan, its possible to do both simultaneously, but what might the advantages of these two following options be?

A:

Lose 5lbs fat, add 5lbs muscle, lose 5lbs fat, add 5lbs muscle (3 weeks in each phase for a total of 12 weeks)

B:

Lose 10lbs of fat, and add 10lbs of muscle at the same time. (12 weeks still, so you’d need to add less than a pound of muscle, and lose less than a pound of fat per week)

Even in CW’s book 10/10 he says that he made his transformation while training MMA. He doesn’t mention anything about how he switched from building to cutting every three weeks, yet he had the same outcome.

I guess what im getting hung up on is where he says “fat loss can only be achieved if you burn more calories than you eat each day” Does the body really know what a day is? Does this mean we could alternate each day between building and cutting, or each week, or every three weeks. Does it really even matter?

Theres two different paths, and they both are very different but they both have the same destination. Which path shall i take???


#7

O How I love this debate…lol

Well Here are my toughts on this. The only people building muscle while loseing fat are the people who have never lifted or dieted before they are getting those great bigginner gains while loesing a little fat!

Now I know that with a Prefect diet and Perfect training in the Perfect universe it IS IN THEORY possible to do both. Trust me when I tell you. You Wont Be Able To! Youl be seing such SLLOOOWWWW Results even if you do strike that perfect Utopia of training and dieting!

BUILD MUSCLE first 10 pounds can be done in 4 months give or take! If you gain say 5 pounds of fat as well then so what? Youl still only have 15 pounds to loose thats easaly done in 12 weeks or less so there you have it now get to it!


#8

Trying to abtain both is such a tougher and slower process. I know that when setting a goal, at least for me, you have to be motivated.

In weightlifting (as well as many other areas of life) progress keeps you motivated. Its a constant battle against yourself to improve in some way. That can be by getting stronger on a certain lift, gaining some muscle mass, or losing fat mass to get leaner. Lets say you chose to get lean, you’ll see weekly progress, which will motivate you to continue.

If you chose to get bigger, again, you’ll see weekly progress (either in strength or size/weight). If you chose to accomplish both, you may not see and/or notice any progress for long periods of time because of the slow process. This can derail your motivation and set you off your course.


#9

Charles Poliquin seems to think it’s no big deal:

http://www.musclesci.com/forum/f245/downside-bulking-44103/

of course he’s also hawking his supps at the end of the article so…

I’d say if you’re in crap shape to begin with, then yeah, it’s much easier to pull it off. If you’re already in great shape then you should prolly focus on bulking first, but in a slow, controlled manner, not force-feeding yourself and just laying down fat with abandon.

I dunno…I personally can always do it when I diet, but that’s just my metabolism. I usually drop weight for two weeks and then I just stick for some reason at a given weight. I keep losing fat, but my weight never changes???

I’ve got a really slow metabolism though and I’m practically diabetic my insulin sensitivity is so poor :frowning:

I also never do any kind of cardo…only lift heavy and do 1-2 lactate sessions per week as well when dieting. I tend to zig-zag diet too so that may be part of the reason why.

That and I inhale a ridiculous amount of Biotest supps :slight_smile:


#10

I decided im gonna do how he recomends in the 10/10 but start in phase II since ive alrady been “cutting” for a bit.

So for the next three weeks im gonna shoot for 5lbs of muscel gained.

I think both methods will have the same results, and possibly in the same time, but the more i think about it, its easier to focus on one or the other.