T Nation

Have Neocons Stolen My Party?

Neocons are former Democrats who believe in big deficits and in wars (Ron Paul). How did this happen? Or did Republicans debase themselves to gain votes?

Discuss?

You’re either a constitutionist and a libertarian or you’re a liberal. If you think the federal government has the power to breach the constitution for any reason then you’re a liberal. Neocons are liberals who associate with the republican party and just happen to have slightly more traditional views than the democrats.

I have no idea what the Republican Party is about these days. New drug programs and increasing the size of the Dept. of Ed., I guess. I’d like to see a new party form centered around decentralization. A party that looks a the individual as the most important governing body, followed by the family, then local community, then state, and finally as an absolute last resort, the federal government.

Both parties are in constant change.

Neither are anything close to what they were even a decade ago.

One party is tax and spend more. The other is don’t tax and still spend.

Lovely.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Neocons are former Democrats who believe in big deficits and in wars (Ron Paul). How did this happen? Or did Republicans debase themselves to gain votes?

Discuss?

[/quote]

You’re oversimplifying a bit, and some of them weren’t former Democrats, but former communists (Trotskyites). But seriously, this is news to you?

What’s striking is that President Reagan used to be a Dem (I think) and had massive budget deficits throughout his 8 years. Was RR the first neocon?

Here is my oversimplification of the two parties:

Democrats - Big government nannies. Plan and implement government controls upon all it’s citizens. A morally deprived party who seeks to create loyalty through indebtedness.

Republicans - Folks who talk a good game at times, but in the end are a bunch of pussies who cave to pressure from democrats. They say they are for smaller government and less government control but do the opposite and they grow the government.

Both parties are in control of special interests and any control that we think we have is at best an illusion. Special interests need to be banned from the political process outright.

All elected officials need 12 weeks of boot camp at Paris Island, and a year of Peace Corps work in the world’s biggest cesspools. This is to cleanse their perspective and pay attention to shit that matter and ignore shit that doesn’t.

That’s why I don’t subscribe to a political party…I believe in making up my own mind.

I think neocons stole your country altogether.

Think about it: Bush had two terms, and the two front-runners for next elections are just “more of the same”.

[quote]lixy wrote:
I think neocons stole your country altogether.

Think about it: Bush had two terms, and the two front-runners for next elections are just “more of the same”.[/quote]

Do you ever tire of being wrong?

Neocon == big government interventionist; not necessarily of a conservative tinge – witness, Hillary Clinton.

Liberals, at least classical liberals, used to be the good guys. I refer to the neo-liberals as progressives – or, those that think the State is necessary to solve all problems in the private sector.

Did a Bush supporter just complain about someone being pro-war?

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
What’s striking is that President Reagan used to be a Dem (I think) and had massive budget deficits throughout his 8 years. Was RR the first neocon?[/quote]

You dare to criticize half-god Reagan?!? Has someone hacked your account? You make Ann unhappy.

[quote]Ken Kaniff wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
What’s striking is that President Reagan used to be a Dem (I think) and had massive budget deficits throughout his 8 years. Was RR the first neocon?

You dare to criticize half-god Reagan?!? Has someone hacked your account? You make Ann unhappy.[/quote]

My only interest is in the truth. If I thought outright Marxism was better for humanity than capitalism, I’d abandon capitalism at a moment’s notice. If I thought that someone who I thought exemplified my ideals turned out to be a phony, I’d drop them.

I don’t have an open mind, just an active one. :smiley:

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
What’s striking is that President Reagan used to be a Dem (I think) and had massive budget deficits throughout his 8 years. Was RR the first neocon?[/quote]

He started that kind of movement away from fiscal responsibility in the office of President, yes. That’s what happens when you elect a professional liar as the executive of your nation.

Bush 41 tried to bring it back under control, but Bush 43 has gone and ruined all that anyway.

In short, the USA is semi-screwed. We’ll probably pull out of it ok, but in the end, we’ll be worse off than before.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
My only interest is in the truth. If I thought outright Marxism was better for humanity than capitalism, I’d abandon capitalism at a moment’s notice. If I thought that someone who I thought exemplified my ideals turned out to be a phony, I’d drop them.

I don’t have an open mind, just an active one. :smiley:

[/quote]

Thats very good. Though i wonder what Reagan has done recently to suddenly become a “phony”…

Now dont tell me you also dont like McCarthy anymore…

Yes, they have. Only they are worse than the worst liberals. Instead of being spend-and-tax, they are spend-and-NOT-tax. That doesn’t work.

What do you mean by “neocon”?

This article talks about “neocon” foreign policy:

or alternatively, these articles attempt to define a “neocon” school of thought:

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg051603.asp

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg052003.asp

http://www.nationalreview.com/goldberg/goldberg052103.asp

[quote]pat36 wrote:
Here is my oversimplification of the two parties:

Democrats - Big government nannies. Plan and implement government controls upon all it’s citizens. A morally deprived party who seeks to create loyalty through indebtedness.

Republicans - Folks who talk a good game at times, but in the end are a bunch of pussies who cave to pressure from democrats. They say they are for smaller government and less government control but do the opposite and they grow the government.

Both parties are in control of special interests and any control that we think we have is at best an illusion. Special interests need to be banned from the political process outright.

That’s why I don’t subscribe to a political party…I believe in making up my own mind.[/quote]

I generally agree with your assesment of both parties, except I don’t think the Republicans are pussies who cave to the Democrats. Like the Democrats, they are beholden to their own interests, sponsers, bosses, whatever you want to call them, who fund their campaigns, and in exchange expect and often get tax dollars in the form of pork, no bid contracts, etc. So they’re both in the same race, they just have different stickers on their cars.

However, Democrats want to solve national problems with government buracracy, while the Republicans want to put everything on the private sector. Both solutions tend to result in inefficiency and corruption. It seems to me that anyone who wants to solve every problem with the same answer must be either really stupid or totally insane.

Nope, the party is just getting started.

[quote]Majin wrote:
Have Neocons Stolen My Party?

Nope, the party is just getting started.[/quote]

God, I love those pictures!!!

The man has a sense of humor, no denying that.

Oh, you guys noticing which candidate these dems/lixy’s fear?

JeffR