? I didn’t feel like anyone was overly rude. I mean that was a quote that turkishmaximus used.
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I decided before I started this thread to keep my input short. I enjoyed it. I won’t be on the site anymore. Good luck with your training. Confusion[/quote]
This seemed rather dramatic.[/quote]
I thought so too.
Nevertheless, good luck with your training also.
[quote]confusion wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I decided before I started this thread to keep my input short. I enjoyed it. I won’t be on the site anymore. Good luck with your training. Confusion[/quote]
While I don’t train this way (HIT) and generally disagree with it in theory, I respect a man that gives it an honest crack to gauge it’s effectiveness - both within his own time constraints and with the potential results …or lack thereof
There’s more than one way to skin a cat … I was looking forward to seeing where he was in six months - and curious as to what his adjustments might be, if any
At least he’s following thru on what he believes to be the correct route (for now) without asking inane questions or switching programs every week … Like some TN posters
All the best dude - don’t be a stranger - mad props from me for doing what you think is right and following thru on it - better than most
[quote]confusion wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I decided before I started this thread to keep my input short. I enjoyed it. I won’t be on the site anymore. Good luck with your training. Confusion[/quote]
Does this mean the discussion/debate is over? I was looking forward to seeing how it develops. As I said, I don’t know much about Mentzer or his training but he does come across as an eccentric which every sport needs in my opinion.
We need more people to question the norm - whether they are correct or not is less important than the questions that they ask. This forces us to consider our position and things that we may take for granted.
[quote]TheNWhiter wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I decided before I started this thread to keep my input short. I enjoyed it. I won’t be on the site anymore. Good luck with your training. Confusion[/quote]
Does this mean the discussion/debate is over? I was looking forward to seeing how it develops. As I said, I don’t know much about Mentzer or his training but he does come across as an eccentric which every sport needs in my opinion.
We need more people to question the norm - whether they are correct or not is less important than the questions that they ask. This forces us to consider our position and things that we may take for granted. [/quote]
I was also really starting to enjoy the discussion. he did say hate on, or discuss.
[quote]TheNWhiter wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I decided before I started this thread to keep my input short. I enjoyed it. I won’t be on the site anymore. Good luck with your training. Confusion[/quote]
Does this mean the discussion/debate is over? I was looking forward to seeing how it develops. As I said, I don’t know much about Mentzer or his training but he does come across as an eccentric which every sport needs in my opinion.
We need more people to question the norm - whether they are correct or not is less important than the questions that they ask. This forces us to consider our position and things that we may take for granted. [/quote]
And Mentzer certainly filled that role. I for one used to be a fairly big fan of his.
Apparently this whole thread (which really does not belong is the Beginners forum) is my “fault”. Whoops.
[quote]confusion wrote:
I’ve been taking some heat for espousing the ideas of Mike Mentzer and HIT training. [/quote]
That’s not exactly true. Here’s the CliffsNotes of the story, to clarify for the group:
A new guy started a thread asking how to lose fat and get stronger. Confusion replied by saying he’s the same height and weight as the OP and he trains once a week and follows no specific diet. I replied by saying that training once a week and following no specific diet when someone wants to lose fat is fucking retarded. The snowball rolled from there.
HIT training is a pretty broad category (even HIT followers often argue about “true HIT” vs. other variations). Literal “high intensity training” - training up to and beyond muscular failure - on a more “regular” plan can absolutely be effective for bodybuilding, but Mentzer’s “Consolidation” routine that calls for one workout every 5-12 days has never, in anything I’ve read or researched, led to impressive or noteworthy results.
Mike Mentzer was batshit crazy, especially in his later years. Many people who met him agree on that. He also had an absolutely phenomenal physique and seems to credit it to HIT (low volume, high intensity training, often-but-not-always low frequency). If someone trains according to his principles and gets closer to their goals, awesome. Rock on, more power to 'ya.
The issue is when people stick to his methods even though, objectively-speaking, they simply aren’t working. And that’s often the case that dedicated HIT followers end up in. They love the method and the mythology associated with it. “Training HIT” becomes the goal, not “losing fat/gaining muscle”.
Mentzer did a traditional 3 x a week full body routine from the age of twelve up to and during college. He admitted to it in an interview. His ‘perfected’ system is only a small part of his training history.
To stir the part a bit, I recently started a routine (Google Growth Principles for Beginners), that pretty much is one work set per exercise (a couple exercises per body part at most). I’ve been doing high volume for a while now, but it’s beginning to take a toll on me (the eating enough is time consuming, let alone the fact I was working up to being in the gym a couple hours a day, which I didn’t mind so much, but on top of work and other responsibilities I figured I could try something out for a few months) - reading what I have on training naturally and rest and recovery, I thought I would give it a shot.
Any opinions from people who have tried it with or without success?
I’ve decided to come back for a visit and to respond to a few posts and give my thoughts in general. So, I will start by saying,I try to be as real as possible. I’ve got pics of me on a log I was keeping in the over 35 lifter. I DO NOT think I look great or even very good. I have several areas that need improvement and am working on them.
Let’s be real for a moment,cool? I am never gonna win a beauty contest nor even the most basic of bodybuilding contests. I am too tall,ugly, and I don’t really care that much about things like calves. That’s me…I am gonna own something also,I do have some muscle on my body. Confusion
Here we go…Chris says it’s not exactly true that I’ve been taking heat for talking about HIT and Mike Mentzer. JoeGood told me to die in a fire in the over 35 lifter forum. That’s about as close to taking heat as it can get on the computer. So, what I said IS exactly true.
LoRez said on another thread…
The most impressive picture in there was the car. I like it. What is it?
But on point, maybe “fucking retarded” was a bit extreme, but I wasn’t too impressed with the photos. It’s not that you’ve not done well and made positive changes with such minimal training, but rather that I think you’re overstating the benefit of your methods.
The results of more frequent training (like, say, 3x a week or more) are often more impressive than what you’ve shown in your log.
Just as an example, AnytimeJake has an impressive physique, trains daily (or pretty close to daily), eats like a horse, and focuses on improving the big lifts. You can look at his log to see the progress he’s made in the last three months.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, or that what you’re doing doesn’t work. But I am saying that I think the OP can do better than following your advice, and I think you could do better too by adjusting your methods
Based on his logic and what I’ve read on AnytimeJake’s log, I should be doing as well as Jake before giving my opinion. In his log Jake talks about the fact he was a former competitive power lifter,owns a commercial gym,trains young people to get stronger,and has done steroids in the past.Now, I am just a truck driver and a recovering alcoholic with no pretensions,but in my opinion,Jake doesn’t look That much better than me. Also,LoRez, where are your pics from the past 3 months? They gotta be on par with Jake’s in order for your opinion to be valid using your own standard. Right? After all,you aren’t far off 4,000 posts,most of them giving advice.Confusion
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
How big and strong have you become using these methods?[/quote]
No answer for this question will be good enough. Why? Mike and Ray Mentzer were both bigger and stronger than you and probably Casey Viator as well. Not gonna change the way you train though right? Why ask the question. Confusion
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
How big and strong have you become using these methods?[/quote]
I have only in the past few months been winning my battle with alcoholism,so,my body and strength levels aren’t what they could/will be. I’m not doing too badly tho. I was keeping a log in the over 35 lifter that has some recent pics and workouts.[/quote]
With this evidence, I am unconvinced on the method. If you achieve more, let me know.[/quote]
Arrogant? Not sure. Come to me with a question,don’t like the answer,then tell me to come to YOU with a better one. Hmm. Might be being over sensitive on this one. I hope so.
[quote]tredaway wrote:
Many many moons ago ie when Lee Haney was the top man I followed the Dorian Yates style of training ie I used to do a couple of warm up sets followed by one set to failure.
At first I made some small gains but then after a while it got to be that I would hit failure on the same number of reps time and time again although back then I struggled to gain much weight, then enter Stuart McRoberts hardgainer mag which advocated start light and add weight at each work out, all I can say is that I broke past all my sticking points and was a happy man.
I have now made a come back at the young age 47 and by starting light and adding weight at each session I’m stronger now than I’ve ever been so personally I’m a big fan of cycle training especially if your training drug free.[/quote]
I agree with a lot of this and try to add weight each workout as well as going to failure. Confusion
Almost any time you read an article as hateful as the one Turkus Maximus quoted, You can Automatically dismiss it as Incorrect. One small example, take a look at Arthur Jones,that dude wasn’t little. Also, The Great Turk also said he agrees with it,glad mentzer’s dead,his jedi rot in hell,I guess that includes me… so,well, what a dick!
[quote]MytchBucanan wrote:
The only thing I disagreed with was the infrequency. My best gains have come from short, intense and frequent bodypart hits.
I think most of Mentzer’s success with his clients came from lifters that needed a short term deload period as anyone who trains hard and long will at some point.
I made the mistake of thinking my new success was due to his routine. It was really just recovering from all the volume I had been doing before.[/quote]
This may be correct. I will eventually try this at some point
[quote]Velvet Elvis wrote:
[quote]confusion wrote:
Thanks for the replies. I decided before I started this thread to keep my input short. I enjoyed it. I won’t be on the site anymore. Good luck with your training. Confusion[/quote]
While I don’t train this way (HIT) and generally disagree with it in theory, I respect a man that gives it an honest crack to gauge it’s effectiveness - both within his own time constraints and with the potential results …or lack thereof
There’s more than one way to skin a cat … I was looking forward to seeing where he was in six months - and curious as to what his adjustments might be, if any
At least he’s following thru on what he believes to be the correct route (for now) without asking inane questions or switching programs every week … Like some TN posters
All the best dude - don’t be a stranger - mad props from me for doing what you think is right and following thru on it - better than most [/quote]
You’re still awesome Velvet Elvis
[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Apparently this whole thread (which really does not belong is the Beginners forum) is my “fault”. Whoops.
[quote]confusion wrote:
I’ve been taking some heat for espousing the ideas of Mike Mentzer and HIT training. [/quote]
That’s not exactly true. Here’s the CliffsNotes of the story, to clarify for the group:
A new guy started a thread asking how to lose fat and get stronger. Confusion replied by saying he’s the same height and weight as the OP and he trains once a week and follows no specific diet. I replied by saying that training once a week and following no specific diet when someone wants to lose fat is fucking retarded. The snowball rolled from there.
HIT training is a pretty broad category (even HIT followers often argue about “true HIT” vs. other variations). Literal “high intensity training” - training up to and beyond muscular failure - on a more “regular” plan can absolutely be effective for bodybuilding, but Mentzer’s “Consolidation” routine that calls for one workout every 5-12 days has never, in anything I’ve read or researched, led to impressive or noteworthy results.
Mike Mentzer was batshit crazy, especially in his later years. Many people who met him agree on that. He also had an absolutely phenomenal physique and seems to credit it to HIT (low volume, high intensity training, often-but-not-always low frequency). If someone trains according to his principles and gets closer to their goals, awesome. Rock on, more power to 'ya.
The issue is when people stick to his methods even though, objectively-speaking, they simply aren’t working. And that’s often the case that dedicated HIT followers end up in. They love the method and the mythology associated with it. “Training HIT” becomes the goal, not “losing fat/gaining muscle”.[/quote]
So,is my opinion fucking retarded or not? Because you didn’t say any of this at the time I also directed the OP to my log which discusses proper training and the way I eat. Confusion
[quote]roybot wrote:
Mentzer did a traditional 3 x a week full body routine from the age of twelve up to and during college. He admitted to it in an interview. His ‘perfected’ system is only a small part of his training history. [/quote]
AND, it was during the time he competed and won his titles that he trained with Heavy Duty(HIT),so this is a bit beside the point. Confusion