T Nation

Hate Crimes


#1

I hate homophobia. But I also hate hate-crime laws. I didn't hate the state of Pennsylvania Board of Accountancy, but now I do. I think the court got it right on this one.

http://www.volokh.com/posts/1248977303.shtml


#2

Of course it’s stupid. If you are harming somebody in a way that gets the attention of law enforcement, it’s seldom done out of love. So most crimes with victims are hate crimes.

A person who murders a mother of three should get the same sentence and the person who murders a homosexual. Et. al, Life W/O parole.


#3

[quote]pat wrote:
Of course it’s stupid. If you are harming somebody in a way that gets the attention of law enforcement, it’s seldom done out of love. So most crimes with victims are hate crimes.

A person who murders a mother of three should get the same sentence and the person who murders a homosexual. Et. al, Life W/O parole.[/quote]

True, when I have time I’ll tell about a local " hate crime".


#4

What if I, a white man, struck another white man while yelling “I hate you!.” No racial, gender, sexuality, religious, etc., utterances. Then, after being arrested, I state to the police, “The guy’s a smartass. I friggen hate him, and wanted to teach him a lesson.” Is that a hate motivated non-hate crime?


#5

[quote]Sloth wrote:
What if I as a white man, struck another white man, while yelling “I hate you!.” No racial, gender, sexuality, religious, etc. utterances. And, after being arrested I state to the police, “The guy’s a smartass. I friggen hate him, and wanted to teach him a lesson.” Is that a hate motivated non-hate crime?[/quote]

Reading that made me cross-eyed.


#6

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What if I as a white man, struck another white man, while yelling “I hate you!.” No racial, gender, sexuality, religious, etc. utterances. And, after being arrested I state to the police, “The guy’s a smartass. I friggen hate him, and wanted to teach him a lesson.” Is that a hate motivated non-hate crime?

Reading that made me cross-eyed. [/quote]

Take it up with my lawyer. I’m not paying damages.


#7

Pat and Sloth, totally agree with you. The crime is what needs punishing not the hate. Yeah fine, education might be a good idea for the person filled with hate as hate often comes from fear based on a lack of understanding however at root the issue is the crime.

Southpark got this one just about right a few years ago in their ‘Cartmen’s silly hate crime’ episode.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oi2iBSB4foE


#8

I’m on the fence about hate crimes. On the one hand, ideologically, I don’t really like them. On the other, I don’t really mind the capacity for stiffer sentencing. I guess I really just don’t mind the capacity for harsher sentences for a lot of violent crimes. (Although I’m not much a fan of this “mandatory” stuff).

I didn’t finish reading that rather long link…he lost his CPA because he “continued” to be homophobic? Anyone want to give the cliffs notes?


#9

[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I’m on the fence about hate crimes. On the one hand, ideologically, I don’t really like them. On the other, I don’t really mind the capacity for stiffer sentencing. I guess I really just don’t mind the capacity for harsher sentences for a lot of violent crimes. (Although I’m not much a fan of this “mandatory” stuff).

I didn’t finish reading that rather long link…he lost his CPA because he “continued” to be homophobic? Anyone want to give the cliffs notes? [/quote]

The problem is not as much the idea of hate crimes, which is to stamp out racially or ethnically motivated violence. The problem is more in arbitrary and ridiculous application which is really unavoidable.

Bascially, the Accounting Board took the guy’s license for being homophobic, and the court reversed.


#10

The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.

They have their place, but like all things, can be abused


#11

[quote]borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.

They have their place, but like all things, can be abused[/quote]

Don’t go interjecting facts into the discussion.


#12

[quote]borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.

[/quote]

This is a good point. I wasn’t really thinking about that.


#13

Here’s my story. I have a small Chiropractic office in Shenandoah , Pa. a year ago and illegal alien was beat to death by 4 white males who had played and still would have played football.

Right away there were the rumors, charges of hate crime and racism, etc.

The four guys were drinking, they came across this girl they knew who was 14. She was hanging out with 24 yo Luis Ramirez. the white guys said something like isn’t it past your curfew? The Mexican guy asked her what they said and started an altercation with them.

Btw, he was banging the 14 year old and know to have sold drugs. Not that that excuses the crime I am about to describe, but it might be a reason why the four males ages 16-19 did not just walk away also. Not because they were hunting brown people. The Mexican was also intoxicated at the time.

There was a running fight for app. fifteen minutes. The Mexican made 6 documented calls to friends trying to get some back up for this big ole fight. I’m pointing out that both could have stopped this in case that matters.

The fight went from just some shoving and jawing to fists. At some short point after a youth, Brandon Pieskarsy punched the Mexican. This is all available for research on the net in the local papers if anyone wants to fact check me too. this young man took a deal in exchange for his testimony, 4-9 years. He was admitting to racial intimidation or a hate charge. I forget the exact wording.

The punch hit the guy in the face and witness stated that he then fell and hit his head. while he was down he was kicked in the head in what the local ME stated was the fatal blow. During the trial of the two remaining youth as adults, the other Juvenile by the last name Scully who was to be tried as a juvenile as was decided before the trial for the others was implicated as being the guy who kicked him. this was by the dead man’s friend.

The two remaining were found guilty of assault and had sentences of app 7-9 moths to 23 months. Many people were outraged, myself included, but I saw the reasoning. The defense attys proved to the jury’s satisfaction that the two remaining defendants did not deliver serious blows.

Now the call goes out for hate crimes from the local Hispanic agitating groups who seem to thrive from this BS. The dead guy’s fiancee, Crystal Dillman lead the charge for her kid’s poor dead daddy soon after the death. she sold a picture of him lying in critical condition with all the tunes and such to a local Spanish language newspaper. There is no way they could have had that picture without her consent.

She has collected in the tens of thousands of dollars from these nationwide OMGICBEWISMO. It’s an acronym for Oh my God I can’t believe whitey is so mean organizations. this is to pay for their two boys etc. who lost their drug dealing pervert dad. The 14 year old who he was banging was her step sister. I might be mistaken and it might be her actual sister.

In case you’re unfamiliar with the term fiancee it is often white trash for some guy who knocked me up twice but is never going to marry me because of that sticky, yes, welfare situation. This prize winning doll has been arrested three times for minor nitwhit offense since that time and is now leading the feds should pursue hate crimes again these two guys crusade.

I am not advocating the innocence of these young men. I think the two remaining got lucky. I also know from knowing one attorney involved that the feds ran this show from day one and did not want to deal. The deal Pieskarsy took was offered to the three and the first one to jump at it gets is. the local attorneys were willing to plea bargain, but the feds would not have it. They saw some cool promotion points I guess.

So the local attorneys politely told them to go fuck themselves. They would take their chances with a jury.
They proved their case and now people got upset. They seem to forget one took a deal, the other was ordered to be tried as a juvenile, and the dead man’s friend fingered the juvenile.

I don’t think it was racism that caused this, it was booze. Even though they reported during a fight to have said a slur, the fact that they did this because he was hispanic seems silly. it could be because he was a dirt bag, sold drugs, or the guys got drunk.

Also, the alleged fiancee was not called to the witness stand along with a ex cop who supposedly witnessed the event. It seems that they were caught in blatant lies and made to look pretty stupid in pre trial hearings.

Sometimes things aren’t about race, but about booze, stupid, money, and another convicition stat.


#14

[quote]tom63 wrote:

Sometimes things aren’t about race, but about booze, stupid, money, and another convicition stat.[/quote]

Well, yes. This is the problem with hate crimes. Even if the desire is to stamp out racially motivated violence and prevent racist law enforcement and prosecutors from letting criminals get off, it can be very hard to determine what the motivation of a crime is. And the application of hate crime laws, in practice, can be arbitrary and unfair.


#15

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
tom63 wrote:

Sometimes things aren’t about race, but about booze, stupid, money, and another convicition stat.

Well, yes. This is the problem with hate crimes. Even if the desire is to stamp out racially motivated violence and prevent racist law enforcement and prosecutors from letting criminals get off, it can be very hard to determine what the motivation of a crime is. And the application of hate crime laws, in practice, can be arbitrary and unfair. [/quote]

Exactly, to me it seems like a bonus thingeee for the undeserved. The man who died did not deserve his fate. The two boys had what I think was a light sentence. but his skank whatever she is who is on welfare and has two kinds from a guy who was dealing and banging her step sister should not profit due to this.

He never tried to marry the woman. After the second kid, probably because of the loss of welfare benefits and the maybe someone will find out I should not be here. He was not a contributing member of society in any positive way. But this was not a racially motivated hate crime.

They said hateful things to him while drunk during an altercation that both parties set in motion. But since his dirtbag fiancee and the feds did not get blood, they want more. Even though this mess was made by the feds when they took over the trial.

My atty friend told me the county DA did not do anything during all the meetings and such. It was the feds running the show. They whipped out their tremendously big American penis’ and two local attorneys went all chinpokeman on them.


#16

[quote]borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.

They have their place, but like all things, can be abused[/quote]

This is what keeps me on the fence as well. Ive thought about ways to prevent this but still not go for hate crimes legislature.

perhaps incidences of judicial corruption need to have stiffer penalites, that if higher federal courts overturn state courts, and theres a clear bias and under sentencing, then all those involved will receive a big federal offense. Heh, make it gamble and have it half the correct sentence, so if its murder and they life in prison, the corruption penalty is 50 years no parole. But even then it depends on someone having the money to go through the appeals process, and a bunch more legal issues.


#17

[quote]borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.

They have their place, but like all things, can be abused[/quote]

What about some of he radical black groups that ritualistically murder whites, but it does not make national news. Will they and do they get hit with a hate crime also? Or is it just straight murder for them?


#18

[quote]Gregus wrote:
borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.

They have their place, but like all things, can be abused

What about some of he radical black groups that ritualistically murder whites, but it does not make national news. Will they and do they get hit with a hate crime also? Or is it just straight murder for them?

[/quote]
Yeah, blacks can be “hate offenders.” If fact they seem to be overrepresented.

An analysis of available race data for the 7,330 known hate crime offenders revealed that:

58.6 percent were white.
20.6 percent were black.
5.7 percent were groups made up of individuals of various races (multiple races, group).
1.1 percent were Asian/Pacific Islander.
1.0 percent of known offenders were American Indian/Alaskan Native.
12.9 percent were unknown.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/hc2006/offenders.html


#19

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.

This is a good point. I wasn’t really thinking about that. [/quote]

Minimum sentencing laws take care of this much better than hate crime laws.


#20

[quote]borrek wrote:
The main point of hate-crime legislature was to make hate-crimes a federal offense. That keeps Billy-Bob’s lynch mob from getting let off easy by the sheriff who was wearing the white cape with them.

They have their place, but like all things, can be abused[/quote]

But in that case the sheriff is guilty of the crime also, and of conspiracy. The crime itself is still the murder, not the fact that the murder victim was black.