Harry Potter (Contains Spoilers)

Off Topic
21

[quote]nephorm wrote:

At the same time, we are assuming that an object must be destroyed to destroy the horcrux… is it possible to destroy the piece of the soul without destroying its container?[/quote]

I was thinking something similar, but why would R.A.B. plant a fake necklace for unless the real one was destroyed (just to leave a signature?)? And as we know, Marvolo’s ring and the diary were “destroyed” as well. Actually, maybe the diary is proof that Harry can be a horcrux and live.

Along similar lines, If Harry kills LV, presumably his soul could then be horcruxed as well if need be.

22

[quote]humanator wrote:
perhaps the last horcrux is not Harry himself, but his scar!!![/quote]

I’d considered that, but we haven’t seen any examples of a horcrux that is only a part of a larger object. But since JK Rowling made it up, who knows what the rules are.

23

[quote]lucasa wrote:
Along similar lines, If Harry kills LV, presumably his soul could then be horcruxed as well if need be.
[/quote]

Dumbledore’s explanation of the horcrux process is that it makes the wizard more and more evil, and less and less human, which makes it an unlikely scenario either for Dumbledore or for Harry. I’ve only read the book once, but it very specifically says “murder” rather than “kill…” which leads me to believe, wizard laws aside, that there must be evil intent upon an innocent victim for such soul fractioning to occur.

24

[quote]BullGooseLooney wrote:
Any one else think it’s snape who is controlling voldermount. He is a very manipulative person and he did convince voldermount to kill harry’s parents. [/quote]

This really couldn’t have happened, as snape and Voldemort differ in age by a rather large gap. Almost to the point that Voldemort was killing people before Snape was born.

25

I believe that Snape was with Dumbledore. He knew that if Snape did not kill him, that Snape would die due to the Unbreakable Oath. So he sacrificed himself to save Snape, and to solidify his position within the Death Eaters.

Ron/Hermione, not real shocked. Didn’t see Harry and Ginny though, I always imagined her as too young.

I was very pleased with the book. I can’t wait to see the movie (GoF) in Nov. either. I worked at Barnes and Noble the night the book came out, I volunteered to help out my wife. It was pure madness. They sold nearly 600 copies in an hour and a half!

My wife and I both read the book in 6 days.

We sure are a bunch of dorks aren’t we? :wink:

26

[quote]lucasa wrote:
nephorm wrote:

That would be my guess. Remember that Voldemort was preparing to make his final horcrux with Harry’s death. Dumbledore assumed (or at least told Harry) that Voldemort was capable of making a horcrux while in his weakened state; possibly in his snake, the only available vessel. But isn’t it possible that when the Avra Kadavra curse went wrong for Voldie, he ended up depositing a piece of himself in Harry? This might be a reason why Voldemort needs to kill Harry himself.

If this is true, then Harry will need to make a horrible sacrifice… a possible result that Rowling has hinted at in the past.

Depending on your interpretation of the prophecy; “And either must die at the hand of the other” could mean that if Harry dies it must be at the hand of LV. Depending on your interpretation, obviously, the prophecy isn’t literal; “neither can live while the other survives” and Harry can’t live forever once LV is dead.
[/quote]

Although you are assuming the prophecy is referring to Harry and Voldemort. It was never fully explained that the prophecy was referring to Harry. Dumbledore even states that he had to infer from what he heard/knew that it was Harry, but there was never anything specifically stated from what I’ve read that says it’s him. There have been parallels drawn in past books between Harry and Neville Longbottom. Could it be referring to Neville?

27

[quote]LoneLobo wrote:
I think the Ron/Hermione thing is BS. What’s entertaining or attractive about Ron at all as a character? Personally, I don’t like him, and I don’t see what anyone would find appealing about him.[/quote]

I find Harry to be even less attractive as a guy. In the last book, he was beyond irritating, though they eased that up in the current one. When he was dating “Cho Chang” I almost died laughing, since “Chocha” is a common euphemism for vagina, at least around here.

But Ron and Hermione have been flirting, so to speak, for a while now, so it’s no surprise they hooked up.

28

[quote]nephorm wrote:

Dumbledore’s explanation of the horcrux process is that it makes the wizard more and more evil, and less and less human, which makes it an unlikely scenario either for Dumbledore or for Harry. I’ve only read the book once, but it very specifically says “murder” rather than “kill…” which leads me to believe, wizard laws aside, that there must be evil intent upon an innocent victim for such soul fractioning to occur.[/quote]

I didn’t get that the horcrux process made one more and more evil (aside from the fact that each horcrux requires a(nother) murder), but that it did make one less and less human. Even then, I had been thinking about this with respect to my Volde/Nagini Dumbledore/Fawkes. Dumbledore radiates heat and energy when he gets excited/angry. Also, some of the descriptions of travelling with Dumbledore sounded similar to the description of Fawkes. I have some reading to do.

And I agree that the book specifically says murder, I’m pretty sure it didn’t say anything about evil intent, innocent victim, or necessarily human victim. We could argue this ad nauseum and not get anywhere, the last thing I will say about it is that she played pretty fast and loose with the thestrals and the use of the word murder with relation to horcruxes was not defined.

29

Wow! I never expected to get so many responses! I mostly expected to get flamed, actually, for reading Harry Potter.

As far as the Half-Blood Prince goes, I had heard nothing about the book or the story before I read it, so I had no way of knowing that JK had said Voldemort was not the Half-Blood Prince. Still, I never suspected it was Snape’s.

To Lucasa, I think you make very convincing points about Snape. For that theory to be true, however, one would have to assume that Snape’s position with Voldemort is more valuable in the fight against evil than Dumbledore’s involvement, and I have difficulty seeing that as true. And didn’t Dumbledore think the most important thing was that he and Harry find and destroy the horcruxes? What could Snape be doing that’s more important than that?

About Ron and Hermione, I guess I wasn’t so surprised as I was upset by it. It just isn’t a good match, Ron doesn’t deserve to be with someone as important and downright cool as Hermione. By the way, my image of Hermione has been skewed ever since I saw the third movie, because Emma makes Hermione look a lot more attractive than she is supposed to look according the the books. So when I think of Hermione now, I think brains AND beauty, even if that’s not supposed to be the case. Emma’s too hot for her own good! (And yes, I know she’s only 14 or 15) I agree with you, LoneLobo, it’s not a good match-up.

I don’t think Harry will be a Horcrux, because as adult as the book may be growing, I don’t see it ending in Harry sacrificing himself in the end. It just seems too dark an ending for the little readers to handle. JK would probably get sued for causing emotional damage to the kids!

Nephorm’s right about the nature of horcruxes. They make you less human, and more evil, so Dumbledore definately did not create one in Fawks, I’m sure.

To ToShinDo, Ginny is actually only one year behind Harry. Didn’t you date any freshman your senior year? Don’t lie! Everyone has!

Ok, so here’s a big idea I’ve had about the final book. The way I see it, one book can’t be long enough to include four seperate journey’s for four seperate horcruxes. I think, to simplify things, Harry will discover, or come to the conclusion that R. A. B. (who I assume to be Regulus) has attained all of the remaining horcruxes, and will then only have to track down one large prize. I don’t see it all being fit into a single book any other way, what with all the little sub-plots that JK creates, to keep the book from getting too serious for too long. For example, the wedding between Fleur and Bill, which doesn’t really pertain to the main plotline.

Oh and, one last thing, was anyone else really annoyed with the word “snogging”? It drove me crazy throughout the book!

30

[quote]lucasa wrote:
BullGooseLooney wrote:
Any one else think it’s snape who is controlling voldermount. He is a very manipulative person and he did convince voldermount to kill harry’s parents.

This really couldn’t have happened, as snape and Voldemort differ in age by a rather large gap. Almost to the point that Voldemort was killing people before Snape was born.
[/quote]
True, but snape comes into the scene, and slowly builds up V’s confidence in him, and soon Snape starts bending some of the information he’s gathered or whatever and giving it to V. V believes him and does it, Snape gets his way. We don’t really know the extent of Snape’s service to V.

31

[quote]StinkyDog wrote:

Although you are assuming the prophecy is referring to Harry and Voldemort. It was never fully explained that the prophecy was referring to Harry. Dumbledore even states that he had to infer from what he heard/knew that it was Harry, but there was never anything specifically stated from what I’ve read that says it’s him. There have been parallels drawn in past books between Harry and Neville Longbottom. Could it be referring to Neville?[/quote]

Actually, it was stated that while the prophecy itself didn’t determine ‘the chosen one’, but that Volde did indeed fulfill the prophecy by choosing Harry.

ToShinDo, six days? Were you reading aloud to minors or mental patients? ;p

Actually, I keep telling myself that I’m an avid reader and this is the biggest thing to happen to reading since the printing press and that someday my kids will be reading it, so I better know all about it. Like 9/11 was the younger generation’s (my, maybe our) Pearl Harbor, Harry Potter is analogous to the Beatles. After thinking all this, I feel better about reading it.

LocoComoUnZorro, Dumbledore didn’t sacrifice himself for Snape, he had no choice, not so much as Dumbledore thought Snape to be more valuable than himself as much as crossing that bridge when they came to it. Unfortunately, that bridge happen to be in the Tall Tower, surrounded by Death Eaters, with Snape at the helm. Now, If Snape knew about the horcruxes and was aiding Regulus, I could easily see why Snape thought himself more important and Dumbledore himself. Also, as I said, I have some rereading to do, but I don’t remember the “more evil” part of horcruxes (or maybe it does say “more evil” and I just assumed it meant the more you have, the more people you’ve murdered, ergo more evil).

BullGooseLooney,
I misunderstood your assertion, obviously, I agree that Snape could be “running the show” (I’m not sold on the whole good guy story [see above] just yet), Slytherins are very self-centered, manipulative, and opportunistic. I thought you meant something more along the lines of Snape “running the whole show” by forcibly (curse or otherwise) making Voldemort generate horcruxes, kill, torture, attempt to kill Harry, and all.

32

[quote]StinkyDog wrote:
There have been parallels drawn in past books between Harry and Neville Longbottom. Could it be referring to Neville?[/quote]

It could’ve been Neville, but it wasn’t. JKR has said explicitly that Longbottom will NOT figure in the final resolution of the book in any important way.

33

No, you’re quite right about what was said about the horcruxes Lucasa. It does not state that it makes one more evil. However I understand it to be the darkest of the Dark Arts and therefore is only done by evil wizards. And when it says that more horcruxes made means you become less and less human, I see that as becoming more and more animalistic, which can be considered more evil, as long as the mind is still at the human level. I just don’t see the creation of horcruxes as something any good wizard could or would do.

34

[quote]LocoComoUnZorro wrote:
No, you’re quite right about what was said about the horcruxes Lucasa. It does not state that it makes one more evil. However I understand it to be the darkest of the Dark Arts and therefore is only done by evil wizards. And when it says that more horcruxes made means you become less and less human, I see that as becoming more and more animalistic, which can be considered more evil, as long as the mind is still at the human level. I just don’t see the creation of horcruxes as something any good wizard could or would do.[/quote]

Sorry, I didn’t mean to imply that those were Dumbledore’s actual words, rather than just my impression of them.

35

[quote]lucasa wrote:
StinkyDog wrote:

Although you are assuming the prophecy is referring to Harry and Voldemort. It was never fully explained that the prophecy was referring to Harry. Dumbledore even states that he had to infer from what he heard/knew that it was Harry, but there was never anything specifically stated from what I’ve read that says it’s him. There have been parallels drawn in past books between Harry and Neville Longbottom. Could it be referring to Neville?

Actually, it was stated that while the prophecy itself didn’t determine ‘the chosen one’, but that Volde did indeed fulfill the prophecy by choosing Harry.

[/quote]

True, however that is still what Dumbledore inferred, what he pieced together from the events that happened. Not saying you’re wrong, just saying that there is some wiggle room there for it not to be Harry. I may be reaching though, but I’ll still keep an open mind.

36

[quote]nephorm wrote:
StinkyDog wrote:
There have been parallels drawn in past books between Harry and Neville Longbottom. Could it be referring to Neville?

It could’ve been Neville, but it wasn’t. JKR has said explicitly that Longbottom will NOT figure in the final resolution of the book in any important way.[/quote]

Guess I missed that bit of info.

37

[quote]nephorm wrote:
StinkyDog wrote:
There have been parallels drawn in past books between Harry and Neville Longbottom. Could it be referring to Neville?

It could’ve been Neville, but it wasn’t. JKR has said explicitly that Longbottom will NOT figure in the final resolution of the book in any important way.[/quote]

actually, rowling said not to assume that nephorm. if you go to her offical website, www.jkrowling.com , go to the faqs about the book, and scroll down to the 18th question near the end of the first page of book faqs, she says near the end of her reply, “Of course, none of this should be taken to mean that Neville does not have a significant part to play in the last two novels, or the fight against voldemort.”

she’s not necessarily saying he has a huge rule, but she’s not saying he doesn’t either, and she does imply that he will be a contributing factor of some sort. but its best to read her full reply in that faq section to get the full scope on neville.

38

Maverick: If I have time today, I’ll track down the interview I was referring to. Specifically, I’m talking about the prophecy… that it does NOT refer to Neville at all. I’ll see if I can find it.

39

I loved the word “snogging” I thought it was inspired as compared to other options. It also drew the picture, with out killing the reader with sloppy detail. It got the point accross.

I see several possiblities for book 7. Dumbledor died to save Malfoy. Snape had to do it.

Snape turns out to be an evil son of a bitch and Malfoy turns into a good guy.

I do think R.A.B. is Regulus. Makes sense, as he was a death eater that turned against ‘He who must not be named’ and was killed a short time later. She made a point as to never revealing his middle name.

I know that Harry has to become a much better wizard, before the show-down with Voldemort. Perhaps, Dumbledor knew as long as Harry had protection, he would not become as powerful as needs to be.

I don’t think Ron will be tagging Hermione anytime soon, but if I was him I’d use the engorgment charm. I’d also make myself a vat of Felix Felicis and screw in it…ooops, getting off topic.

Or, none of the above. J.K. has a way of thinking about things that never occured to me.

40

[quote]nephorm wrote:
Maverick: If I have time today, I’ll track down the interview I was referring to. Specifically, I’m talking about the prophecy… that it does NOT refer to Neville at all. I’ll see if I can find it.[/quote]

Maverick: You are correct. I was unable to find the quote that I was thinking of, but you are right that she does not dismiss the possibility of Neville playing a significant part in the defeat of Voldemort.