T Nation

Hardgainer Myth?!

Hi,
Many BB sites say that guys with small frames will have a very hard time putting on mass.
Some other sites say that this is crap…it only matters how good you train/eat…
So, what’s your opinion ?

Do genetics matter ?!

Guys with small frames will have a very hard time putting on mass…only if they aren’t eating enough and training hard.

It’s basically crap. There are places where Genetics factor in(btw, ‘genetics’ is a very broad term, what do you mean exactly?) but it should never be used as a crutch or an excuse for why you aren’t gaining.

[quote]Horazio wrote:
Hi,
Many BB sites say that guys with small frames will have a very hard time putting on mass.
Some other sites say that this is crap…it only matters how good you train/eat…
So, what’s your opinion ?
[/quote]
What about guys over 6 Ft, or overfat guys (Ecto-Meso-Endo)? This is not simply a “small frame” issue…All types will have their specific challenges, “pure mesos” (What Gironda called “Genetic Superiors”) are just “luckier” at the start, they can get away with some “sins” the others cannot, but they still have to put in the work

[quote]
Do genetics matter ?![/quote]
Damn-blinkin’-straight they do…

[quote]Blacksnake wrote:
Horazio wrote:
Hi,
Many BB sites say that guys with small frames will have a very hard time putting on mass.
Some other sites say that this is crap…it only matters how good you train/eat…
So, what’s your opinion ?

What about guys over 6 Ft, or overfat guys (Ecto-Meso-Endo)? This is not simply a “small frame” issue…All types will have their specific challenges, “pure mesos” (What Gironda called “Genetic Superiors”) are just “luckier” at the start, they can get away with some “sins” the others cannot, but they still have to put in the work

Do genetics matter ?!
Damn-blinkin’-straight they do…[/quote]

In the end it dont mean shit though we all have our probs our bumps we have to face screw making excuses for lack luster progress do what it takes to reach your goals

Phill

I find labels in general, especially for less experienced people to be counterproductive and “hardgainer” is the worst. Everybody’s a damn hardgainer or we’d all grow muscle sitting on the couch with a beer. There must be untold multitudes out there (and here) who are defeated from day one by preprogramming themselves for failure with this label.

In my case it seems false. The typical “lift heavy, eat more, sleep enough” advice works for me.

I have a very small frame (thin wrists, narrow hips, narrow shoulders), a very fast metabolism and hadn’t gained any weight in over a decade. Lifting and eating more helped a little. But once I started really eating enough (seven times a day) I gained five kilos in a month.

Ok. Thanks for your ansers,I wanted to know the opinions of people who work out at the gym…

And by the way,I am totally a “small frame guy”, narrow shoulders,small joints,thin bones…I wanted to know If I’m facing an harder challenge than the average Joe…that’s it.
Horazio.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I find labels in general, especially for less experienced people to be counterproductive and “hardgainer” is the worst. Everybody’s a damn hardgainer or we’d all grow muscle sitting on the couch with a beer. There must be untold multitudes out there (and here) who are defeated from day one by preprogramming themselves for failure with this label.[/quote]

I know it delayed results for me. And I’m not just blaming stuff I’ve read, it was my fault and my attitude that was ripe for it, but when I found several sites that basically made an excuse for me it compounded the problem.

When I finally found authors (Berardi, et al) that said to eat, eat, and eat in a way that made me listen I had success.

That’s what I like about this site. Some advice can be harsh, but it is the advice needed.

Personal experience: Myth

I had a small frame when I graduated high school at about 5’6", 130-135. I had very thin legs and forearms… actually everything on me was pretty thin. Basically from following the stuff on this site, I gained 25lbs in about 4-5 months. I personally believe that just anything anyone can gain/lose weight if they have a plan; not on this site 24/7 complaining on about how they can’t do it.

What is with all the “hard gainer” paranoia? There are “true hard gainers”, but these guys are just as uncommon as the genetic wonders, like Coleman, etc. Maybe less so.

I do however agree with the idea that just because someone is tall or short, and has a wiry frame does not mean they are a “(true) hard gainer.” The genetically cursed are as uncommon as the genetically blessed.

I also think that the whole Ecto-Meso-Endo-and-everything-in-between deal is very, very grey. To be taken with a pound of salt.

Stop fucking worrying about how much of a bad ass you are or are not, and train people!

[quote]DSmolken wrote:
In my case it seems false. The typical “lift heavy, eat more, sleep enough” advice works for me.

I have a very small frame (thin wrists, narrow hips, narrow shoulders), a very fast metabolism and hadn’t gained any weight in over a decade. Lifting and eating more helped a little. But once I started really eating enough (seven times a day) I gained five kilos in a month.[/quote]

I don’t ever wanna hear another Polish joke as long as I live. Here, boys and girls, we have someone who gets it though it did take a while =]

[quote]Horazio wrote:
Do genetics matter ?![/quote]

I’d say genetics matter only if you let them be the excuse you use for not attaining your goals. I think you can ALWAYS improve and ALWAYS train harder and smarter. If something isn’t working, figure out WHY and CHANGE IT. Don’t let it take you YEARS of doing what doesn’t work before you realize you probably should do something else.

I started lifting at approx 5’ 6" 105-115 and now I’m 5’6.5" (have to add that 1/2 inch) and I’m 235. Granted I was 13 when I started lifting and now I have a bit higher bodyfat than I should, at age 31. It took me 17 YEARS to get this “big” and it wasn’t easy. But everytime I fall out of the gym, something brings me back. Persistance is key, and don’t let ANYONE sidetrack you from your physique/strength goals or health.

[quote]biglift88 wrote:
Personal experience: Myth

I had a small frame when I graduated high school at about 5’6", 130-135. I had very thin legs and forearms… actually everything on me was pretty thin. Basically from following the stuff on this site, I gained 25lbs in about 4-5 months. I personally believe that just anything anyone can gain/lose weight if they have a plan; not on this site 24/7 complaining on about how they can’t do it. [/quote]

Why did you take Randman’s avatar?

[quote]Horazio wrote:
Ok. Thanks for your ansers,I wanted to know the opinions of people who work out at the gym…

And by the way,I am totally a “small frame guy”, narrow shoulders,small joints,thin bones…I wanted to know If I’m facing an harder challenge than the average Joe…that’s it.
Horazio.

[/quote]

Yes you are, but with hard work and proper nutrition you will add quality mass and look much better than you do now.

You may never be massive but you can look good and be fit and strong.

We are all different but we all respond to training and good nutrition. Some just respond faster. Lucky bastards.

I thought I already said that, Phill?(heheh/:wink:

[quote]Phill wrote:
Blacksnake wrote:
What about guys over 6 Ft, or overfat guys (Ecto-Meso-Endo)? This is not simply a “small frame” issue…All types will have their specific challenges, “pure mesos” (What Gironda called “Genetic Superiors”) are just “luckier” at the start, they can get away with some “sins” the others cannot, but they still have to put in the work

Do genetics matter ?!
Damn-blinkin’-straight they do…

In the end it dont mean shit though we all have our probs our bumps we have to face screw making excuses for lack luster progress do what it takes to reach your goals

Phill
[/quote]

Even if you have a small frame, you can still fill it out.

Otherwise, you’re not a hardgainer, but a fucking excuse monger!

I’m 5’5" with a narrow frame too and I’m a beginner. It’s too bad that I’m not genetically gifted like some of my friends. One of my friends is 5’8" and was at one point only about 10 pounds heavier than me, but his shoulders were far wider than mine. He actually looked thinner than I did but still much wider. Maybe it has to do with skeletal structure.

My view is, as might as well make the most out of what I do have. What’s the point in just fantasizing all day about having a better skeletal frame when you could be improving the body you do have? If I can look good with a shirt off (not there now) and play sports well, that’s good enough.

[quote]rsg wrote:
Guys with small frames will have a very hard time putting on mass…only if they aren’t eating enough and training hard.[/quote]

Perfectly stated!

I think a lot of hardgainers are just guys with low work capacity and dont eat enough.