Hardest Thing To Do in Sports

Magicpunch · February 23, 2011, 11:26pm

[quote]on edge wrote:
I think a mathmatical way to approach this question would be to take the number of people who have tried a sport (or a specific activity with in a sport) vs the number who have been able to do it to a certain level.

In this type of discussion, hitting a 90 mph fastball is often brought up as the hardest thing in sports. I say bullshit to that. The are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of high school kids who can rake 90mph all over the yard.

Pole Vaulting 19 feet also gets mentioned. I like this one. While not a lot of people have tried it, there’s still at least half a dozen new vaulters from every high school in America and elsewhere, and those numbers do add up. The number of people who have vaulted over 10 feet I’m sure is less than 100.

In the end, I’d say the hardest thing in sports is to play Quarterback at an elite level. Every year there’s only 5 or 6 people in the world who do it and they are usually the same ones who did it the year before.[/quote]

How many people outside the US play Football? Of course there are only 5 or 6 people in the world who play it at an elite level, but that’s only because there’s an X amount of teams from the US who you class as elite.

Pretty damn sure if the rest of the world started playing the game, then there’d be a shit ton more elite level quarterbacks around.

Magicpunch · February 23, 2011, 11:29pm

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:

[quote]Magicpunch wrote:

[quote]gregron wrote:
GTFO! Cricket is gayer than aids[/quote]

Haha. Fair enough.

Ever played it?

Greatest game ever invented.[/quote]

Played it at school (forced, lol) for 3 years. Shite game, possibly the iworst[/i] game I can think of. Even baseball looks more action-packed.

BBB[/quote]

Real shame. I can see why 99% of people just don’t like it. All I can say is that if you like it, the game is deep as hell, on a technical as well as strategic/tactical level.

Let me guess - rugby for you?

on_edge · February 23, 2011, 11:35pm

[quote]Magicpunch wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:
I think a mathmatical way to approach this question would be to take the number of people who have tried a sport (or a specific activity with in a sport) vs the number who have been able to do it to a certain level.

In this type of discussion, hitting a 90 mph fastball is often brought up as the hardest thing in sports. I say bullshit to that. The are hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of high school kids who can rake 90mph all over the yard.

Pole Vaulting 19 feet also gets mentioned. I like this one. While not a lot of people have tried it, there’s still at least half a dozen new vaulters from every high school in America and elsewhere, and those numbers do add up. The number of people who have vaulted over 10 feet I’m sure is less than 100.

In the end, I’d say the hardest thing in sports is to play Quarterback at an elite level. Every year there’s only 5 or 6 people in the world who do it and they are usually the same ones who did it the year before.[/quote]

How many people outside the US play Football? Of course there are only 5 or 6 people in the world who play it at an elite level, but that’s only because there’s an X amount of teams from the US who you class as elite.

Pretty damn sure if the rest of the world started playing the game, then there’d be a shit ton more elite level quarterbacks around.[/quote]

Name a sport, any where in the world, that more kids try yet fewer become elite.

Paste42 · February 23, 2011, 11:59pm

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Magicpunch wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[/quote]

Name a sport, any where in the world, that more kids try yet fewer become elite.
[/quote]

Baseball?

Edit: Seriously though, if we’re going based off of numbers wouldn’t soccer hold the title?

on_edge · February 24, 2011, 12:15am

[quote]Paste42 wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Magicpunch wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[/quote]

Name a sport, any where in the world, that more kids try yet fewer become elite.
[/quote]

Baseball?

Edit: Seriously though, if we’re going based off of numbers wouldn’t soccer hold the title?[/quote]

I think more kids try soccer than any other sport but I’m not sure how many really become elite. My guess is there’s not much difference between the very best soccer player and the 100th best soccer player. The difference between the best NFL quarterback and the 100th best quarterback is the difference between bagging groceries at the local grocery store and being and American hero with super models hanging off each arm.

DJHT · February 24, 2011, 12:21am

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Paste42 wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[quote]Magicpunch wrote:

[quote]on edge wrote:

[/quote]

Name a sport, any where in the world, that more kids try yet fewer become elite.
[/quote]

Baseball?

Edit: Seriously though, if we’re going based off of numbers wouldn’t soccer hold the title?[/quote]

I think more kids try soccer than any other sport but I’m not sure how many really become elite. My guess is there’s not much difference between the very best soccer player and the 100th best soccer player. The difference between the best NFL quarterback and the 100th best quarterback is the difference between bagging groceries at the local grocery store and being and American hero with super models hanging off each arm.
[/quote]

There are only 32 NFL teams. How many countries and profesional soccer players are there?

Just being a dick I could really care less.

Paste42 · February 24, 2011, 12:38am

[quote]DJHT wrote:

There are only 32 NFL teams. How many countries and profesional soccer players are there?

Just being a dick I could really care less. [/quote]

Good point. My line of thinking was that more children strive to become soccer players worldwide and only so many make a professional team. NFL has 32 teams where most of the their recruiting comes from the North American region(less total people). I’m not very good at pulling numbers out of my ass.

My stance on the whole OP though is that the hardest thing to do in sports today would be to just bat against elite pitchers. Not just a fastball…When a pitcher has an arsenal of pitches mixed with changes of speed and placement, the chances to get a hit are very slim.

OBoile · February 24, 2011, 1:06am

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Just googled “Hakkem Olajuwon quadruple double” and Olajuwon has actually done it TWICE, but after reviewing game tape the NBA decided one of his assists didn’t count, so they took it away from him in terms of his recording the quad-dub but let it stand on his career total? That seems pretty shady. Here’s to the Dream, the greatest center of all time and a one man fantasy team.[/quote]

An all-time great for sure but Dream was only maybe 6’10 and didnt “change the game” quite the way Kareem, Wilt and heck even Shaquille did
[/quote]

Wilt was 7’2"+ playing against 6’7" centers with no 3 seconds and the rules catered towards him. He wouldn’t even be in the league today. Kareem was great, but always played with other hall of famers and two of the best pg’s of all time in Robertson and Magic. Shaq -as good as he was -is a career underachiever and got MURDERED every time He and Oluajuwon went head-to-head, at least before '97. Go back and look at Olajuwon’s career stats, and realize that he put those numbers up during the NBA’s golden era against the best crop of centers the league has ever seen. Olajuwon didn’t “change the game” in the publics eyes 'cause as big as Houston is, it’s still a semi-small market and most people never saw him play. But, ask any of the players and coaches of that era and he’s widely accepted as the 2nd best player of the 90’s behind Jordan. I don’t care that he was 6’10", he did things that no center has done before or since. If I get to pick any center inNBA history tostart my team, I’m taking Dream.[/quote]
You lost all credibility when you said Wilt wouldn’t even be in the league today.[/quote]

Who are you? Wilt was a lumbering big man with no touch, very little fluidity and his best shot was an over the head finger roll from 6-8 ft out. I don’t care that he did the high jump at Kansas. By todays standards he’s be the definition of “ploddling big man” and would get his shit thrown into the first row every time, assuming he could even get a shot off. I respect what the players of yesteryear did, and what they meant to the game, but any of the superstars from before probably 1975 couldn’t play in todays game. The game’s evolved too much.[/quote]

Who am I? Someone who knows a little about basketball. Which is a little more than you do it would seem.
Wilt would be a star today. Easily.

Eli_B · February 24, 2011, 5:06am

Has anyone said pitching a no hitter? Its not a one time thing like a swing at a baseball but it be rare and shit.

WhiteFlash · February 24, 2011, 5:49am

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Just googled “Hakkem Olajuwon quadruple double” and Olajuwon has actually done it TWICE, but after reviewing game tape the NBA decided one of his assists didn’t count, so they took it away from him in terms of his recording the quad-dub but let it stand on his career total? That seems pretty shady. Here’s to the Dream, the greatest center of all time and a one man fantasy team.[/quote]

An all-time great for sure but Dream was only maybe 6’10 and didnt “change the game” quite the way Kareem, Wilt and heck even Shaquille did
[/quote]

Wilt was 7’2"+ playing against 6’7" centers with no 3 seconds and the rules catered towards him. He wouldn’t even be in the league today. Kareem was great, but always played with other hall of famers and two of the best pg’s of all time in Robertson and Magic. Shaq -as good as he was -is a career underachiever and got MURDERED every time He and Oluajuwon went head-to-head, at least before '97. Go back and look at Olajuwon’s career stats, and realize that he put those numbers up during the NBA’s golden era against the best crop of centers the league has ever seen. Olajuwon didn’t “change the game” in the publics eyes 'cause as big as Houston is, it’s still a semi-small market and most people never saw him play. But, ask any of the players and coaches of that era and he’s widely accepted as the 2nd best player of the 90’s behind Jordan. I don’t care that he was 6’10", he did things that no center has done before or since. If I get to pick any center inNBA history tostart my team, I’m taking Dream.[/quote]
You lost all credibility when you said Wilt wouldn’t even be in the league today.[/quote]

Who are you? Wilt was a lumbering big man with no touch, very little fluidity and his best shot was an over the head finger roll from 6-8 ft out. I don’t care that he did the high jump at Kansas. By todays standards he’s be the definition of “ploddling big man” and would get his shit thrown into the first row every time, assuming he could even get a shot off. I respect what the players of yesteryear did, and what they meant to the game, but any of the superstars from before probably 1975 couldn’t play in todays game. The game’s evolved too much.[/quote]

I vehemently disagree with you

You know I played the sport. I just took my “nephew” to a coaching session with a former big east big man who’s coaching now for some post work - he’s 6.6 and 16 years old. Now, I played the game, but I played PG and let me tell you, the session was an eye opener in terms of footwork and the nuances of post play.

There isn’t a lot of room to maneuver and if you take out the ESPN highlights, post play is very basic - not all athletic highlights. Whether or not Wilt would be a “plodding big man” (I have no opinion), he was a very powerful man, he had great length and long limbs, and as long as he understood footwork and position (which a lot of guys don’t), he’d still be a star in this league.

I also heard a similar comment about Wilt while in the presence of Sonny Hill (google him). Sonny has a connection to the NBA game from then to now and he would “vehemently” disagree with you as well. We aint talking guards here Flash, we’re talking post play and it’s an entirely different game down there.

Kevin McHale couldn’t jump over a phone book and he’s a hall of famer and top 100 player and if he were in the league today, he’s still give you the same stats he did in his prime in Boston. He did it on footwork and technique - not athleticism. [/quote]

C’mon BG, you know I know who Sonny Hill is. And, while I respect him he’s like a lot of other old heads in that he won’t accept that his era couldn’t hang today. And, he’s a Philly guy [like Wilt], and you know Philly cats stick together. About McHale: He has probably the 2nd best post footwork in NBA history, behind Olajuwon. Hell, with today’s lack of post players you might be right about his numbers being in-line with yesteryear. But, Wilt didn’t dominate based on skill and footwork. He dominated based on sheer size, strength and athleticism. There was no one who could contend with him then. Today 7 footers who can walk and chew gum at the same time are a dime a dozen. Saying he wouldn’t be in the league is probably a bit hyperbolic, but he most certainly wouldn’t be a star, and I’m positive he wouldn’t even be a starter.

WhiteFlash · February 24, 2011, 5:55am

[quote]chillain wrote:
To continue with BodyGuard’s posts on post play, the footwork is def basic. The only reason it may seem difficult when you watch is because 7+ ft’ers generally lack the same fluidity, coordination of which everyone else onthe court has tons.

KG has McHale himself to thank for his footwork and Duncan is considered the best PF ever because of his footwork (and defense) and up until this year, it was a fair knock on Dwight Howard that he hadn’t put in the work to get more comfortable on the block. Finally, he’s arrived offensively.

Its also why Jordan became so devastating on the low block so quickly (and consequently Kobe Bryant as well)
[/quote]

Dwight Howard has not “arrived offensively”. He’s as mechanical and predictable as ever, only now he’s actually trying 12 footers off the glass. He still misses 'em 2/3 of the time. He’s a taller Kevin Willis with longer arms, nothing more. If he played in the 90’s he’d be a backup. He’s putting up decent stats in a center-less league. If he had to contend with the Olajuwon’s, Robinson’s, Ewing’s and Shaq’s of the 90’s he’d get murdered.

WhiteFlash · February 24, 2011, 5:57am

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]OBoile wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Just googled “Hakkem Olajuwon quadruple double” and Olajuwon has actually done it TWICE, but after reviewing game tape the NBA decided one of his assists didn’t count, so they took it away from him in terms of his recording the quad-dub but let it stand on his career total? That seems pretty shady. Here’s to the Dream, the greatest center of all time and a one man fantasy team.[/quote]

An all-time great for sure but Dream was only maybe 6’10 and didnt “change the game” quite the way Kareem, Wilt and heck even Shaquille did
[/quote]

Wilt was 7’2"+ playing against 6’7" centers with no 3 seconds and the rules catered towards him. He wouldn’t even be in the league today. Kareem was great, but always played with other hall of famers and two of the best pg’s of all time in Robertson and Magic. Shaq -as good as he was -is a career underachiever and got MURDERED every time He and Oluajuwon went head-to-head, at least before '97. Go back and look at Olajuwon’s career stats, and realize that he put those numbers up during the NBA’s golden era against the best crop of centers the league has ever seen. Olajuwon didn’t “change the game” in the publics eyes 'cause as big as Houston is, it’s still a semi-small market and most people never saw him play. But, ask any of the players and coaches of that era and he’s widely accepted as the 2nd best player of the 90’s behind Jordan. I don’t care that he was 6’10", he did things that no center has done before or since. If I get to pick any center inNBA history tostart my team, I’m taking Dream.[/quote]
You lost all credibility when you said Wilt wouldn’t even be in the league today.[/quote]

Who are you? Wilt was a lumbering big man with no touch, very little fluidity and his best shot was an over the head finger roll from 6-8 ft out. I don’t care that he did the high jump at Kansas. By todays standards he’s be the definition of “ploddling big man” and would get his shit thrown into the first row every time, assuming he could even get a shot off. I respect what the players of yesteryear did, and what they meant to the game, but any of the superstars from before probably 1975 couldn’t play in todays game. The game’s evolved too much.[/quote]

Who am I? Someone who knows a little about basketball. Which is a little more than you do it would seem.
Wilt would be a star today. Easily.[/quote]

You bring up so many good points that it’s hard to argue…

TheBodyGuard · February 24, 2011, 2:28pm

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

C’mon BG, you know I know who Sonny Hill is. And, while I respect him he’s like a lot of other old heads in that he won’t accept that his era couldn’t hang today. And, he’s a Philly guy [like Wilt], and you know Philly cats stick together. About McHale: He has probably the 2nd best post footwork in NBA history, behind Olajuwon. Hell, with today’s lack of post players you might be right about his numbers being in-line with yesteryear. But, Wilt didn’t dominate based on skill and footwork. He dominated based on sheer size, strength and athleticism. There was no one who could contend with him then. Today 7 footers who can walk and chew gum at the same time are a dime a dozen. Saying he wouldn’t be in the league is probably a bit hyperbolic, but he most certainly wouldn’t be a star, and I’m positive he wouldn’t even be a starter.[/quote]

I really don’t want to argue. I just gave my opinion. Sony knows the players of this era, and Wilt’s era. It’s one thing for you or I to speculate, b/c neither of us were of that era, and quite another for a guy who has seen both, and seen them up close and personal.

I will say this - 7 footers who can walk and chew gum at the same time are NOT a dime a dozen. And you really need to reconsider your statement that forhe wouldn’t be a starter. You just got done stating Wilt had size, strength (he was VERY powerful) and athleticism. Please name all the other for each team in the league that would keep him from being a starter. Go ahead, I’ll wait

TheBodyGuard · February 24, 2011, 2:32pm

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:
To continue with BodyGuard’s posts on post play, the footwork is def basic. The only reason it may seem difficult when you watch is because 7+ ft’ers generally lack the same fluidity, coordination of which everyone else onthe court has tons.

KG has McHale himself to thank for his footwork and Duncan is considered the best PF ever because of his footwork (and defense) and up until this year, it was a fair knock on Dwight Howard that he hadn’t put in the work to get more comfortable on the block. Finally, he’s arrived offensively.

Its also why Jordan became so devastating on the low block so quickly (and consequently Kobe Bryant as well)
[/quote]

Dwight Howard has not “arrived offensively”. He’s as mechanical and predictable as ever, only now he’s actually trying 12 footers off the glass. He still misses 'em 2/3 of the time. He’s a taller Kevin Willis with longer arms, nothing more. If he played in the 90’s he’d be a backup. He’s putting up decent stats in a center-less league. If he had to contend with the Olajuwon’s, Robinson’s, Ewing’s and Shaq’s of the 90’s he’d get murdered.[/quote]

Cmon man…a back-up? Seriously? Again, list the centers for each team in the league that would have rendered Howard a back-up. Howard would be a starter in any era to present. You are seriously over-estimating the number of skilled centers in the league at any given time.

TheBodyGuard · February 24, 2011, 3:11pm

And Flash, you do realize in one breath you say Wilt would be just another “plodding” big man and yet in another you acknowledge his athleticism. Which is it? What’s next? Kareem wouldn’t be a star today either? He was no athletic freak and “he lived on that sky-hook - he had nothing else”.

Let me give you some perspective:

For the 90-91 season the following were centers for their respective teams:

Nuggets: Greg Anderson, Anthony Cook, Blair Rasmussen, Joe Wolf.
Mavericks: James Donaldson, John Shasky, Herb Williams
Timberwolves: Randy Bruuer, Dan Godfread, Tod Murphy, Felton Spencer, Bob Thornton
Magic: Mark Acres, Mark McNamara, Jeff Turner
Rockets: Adrian Caldwell, Dave Feitl, Hakeem Olajuwon, Larry Smith, Otis Thorpe
Jazz: Thurl Bailey, Mike Brown, Pat Cummings, Mark Eaton, Dan O’Sullivan, Walter Palmer
Spurs: Sidney Green, Dave Greenwood, David Robinson, Dwayne Schintzius

I am not going to do this for the whole league. But that is the entire Midwest Division for the 90-91 season. There are two names out of 30 playing for 2 teams out of 7 where you could make the argument (strenulously I might add) that Wilt might not start - and that is with Olajuwon and Robinson - both of whom are top 50 all time ALONG WITH WILT.

For giggles, I’ll do another conference (WTF I got spare time ):

Heat: Terry Davis, Alec Kessler, Alan Ogg, Rony Seikaly
Nets: Greg Anderson, Sam Bowie, Chris Dudley, Roy Hinson, Jack Haley
Bullets: Pervis Ellison, Greg Foster, Charles Jones, John Williams
Knicks: Patrick Ewing, Stuart Gray, Jerrod Mustaf, Charles Oakley, Eddie Lee Wilkins
Sixers: Manute Bol, Armen Gilliam, Mike Gminski, Dave Hoppen, Rick Mahorn, Jayson Williams
Celtics: Joe Kleine, Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Dave Popson, Stojko Vrankovic

Once again, out of an entire division, 6 teams, 29 players, you could make the argument (strenuoously I might add again) that Wilt might not start - with Ewing and Parish and I’m being VERY kind to Parish, but both are top 50 all time along with WILT. Kevin McHale, although listed F/C was not a true Center. And again, it’s 2 teams out of 6 (4 out of 13 total) where you could even start to argue your position.

You will also note that I listed all players listed C or F/C combo.

I trust you won’t ask me to do this for other two divisons, but you can go to http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1991.html if you like and peruse it yourself and do it again for this season. I’m willing to wager you any sum the above trend holds steady for any season, any era, to present.

So, I ask you again, Wilt would not be a star today? Wilt would not be a starter?

Aww shucks. Let’ do this for 2009-2010.

Nets: Tony Battie, Brook Lopez (I’m sure Brook would love to know you think he keeps Wilt from starting )
Sixers: Primoz Brezec, Samuel Dalembert, Francisco Elson (please don’t tell Sammy that he’s keeping Wilt off the court, he has enough mental issues as it is!)
Knicks: Earl Barron, Eddie Curry, Darko Milicic (Eddie Curry keeping Wilt off the court? Only if it’s a donut eating contest!)
Raptors: Chris Bosh, Rasho Nesterovic, Patrick O’Bryant (Chris Bosh has average between 7 and 10 rebounds per game for his entire career - HE is not keeping Wilt from starting, he is merely moving to power forward)
Celtics: Kendrick Perkins, Rasheed Wallace (Perkins? Wallace? Even Sheed would laugh at the thought he’d take a starting center spot from Wilt. At best, and in his under-achieving prime (he was touted as possibly filling Wilt’s shoes coming out of high school - he was amazing then), Sheed, like Bosh, moves to power forward, Wilt starts).

Now, unlike our 90-91 analysis, wherein you could make the intelligent, although strenuous argument that Wilt has to actually compete for a starting position on 4 teams out of 13 sampled, we cannot even make that argument (an intelligent one) for 2010 in the entire Atlantic Division!

Seriously Flash, would you like to reconsider some of your statements??

dshroy · February 24, 2011, 3:58pm

the hardest thing to do in sports is to play an entire nfl game at an all star level while high on crack. LT is my proof.

OBoile · February 24, 2011, 6:35pm

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:
To continue with BodyGuard’s posts on post play, the footwork is def basic. The only reason it may seem difficult when you watch is because 7+ ft’ers generally lack the same fluidity, coordination of which everyone else onthe court has tons.

KG has McHale himself to thank for his footwork and Duncan is considered the best PF ever because of his footwork (and defense) and up until this year, it was a fair knock on Dwight Howard that he hadn’t put in the work to get more comfortable on the block. Finally, he’s arrived offensively.

Its also why Jordan became so devastating on the low block so quickly (and consequently Kobe Bryant as well)
[/quote]

Dwight Howard has not “arrived offensively”. He’s as mechanical and predictable as ever, only now he’s actually trying 12 footers off the glass. He still misses 'em 2/3 of the time. He’s a taller Kevin Willis with longer arms, nothing more. If he played in the 90’s he’d be a backup. He’s putting up decent stats in a center-less league. If he had to contend with the Olajuwon’s, Robinson’s, Ewing’s and Shaq’s of the 90’s he’d get murdered.[/quote]

Cmon man…a back-up? Seriously? Again, list the centers for each team in the league that would have rendered Howard a back-up. Howard would be a starter in any era to present. You are seriously over-estimating the number of skilled centers in the league at any given time. [/quote]
Judging by his statements, WhiteFlash is either messing with you, drunk, or clueless. Either way, probably not worth your time.

WhiteFlash · February 24, 2011, 7:04pm

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
And Flash, you do realize in one breath you say Wilt would be just another “plodding” big man and yet in another you acknowledge his athleticism. Which is it? What’s next? Kareem wouldn’t be a star today either? He was no athletic freak and “he lived on that sky-hook - he had nothing else”.