Exactly. Right on spot!
I wouldnāt do either on cycleā¦ Thatās just personal preference.
Both are bad decisions to make
Iāll give mechanisms as to why cocaine is 10x worse acurely
Cocaine
- sodium channel blockade, potassium channel blockade, increased calcium channel current (all predispose one to lethal arrhythmia, these channels aid within regard to allowing the heart to maintain itās natural rhythmā¦ itās a bit more complicated with thisā¦ such as potassium channels control the process of cardiac repolarization, but you get my jist)
- catecholamine release (massive amounts), epinephrine, norepinephrine etc inducing vasoconstriction, binding to beta adrenergic receptors inducing an increase in HR, body temp, blood pressure, platelet aggregation etcā¦ sympathetic nervous system upregulation
- cocaine increases platelet a granule (plays a large role within clotting etc)
- induces endothelial dysfunction
- prolongs the QT interval (torsades de pointes has been reported)
Vasoconstriction decreases oxygen supply to the myocardium but increased HR/contractility increases oxygen demand, this leads to ischema (inadequate oxygen supply), cardiac myocytes to die, be replaced with fibrotic tissue later predisposing the user to lethal arrhythmia (from repeated use obviously). Vasoconstriction + platelet aggregation can form clotting, cause something called coronary vasospasm, which is when coronary arteries narrow to the point of causing MIā¦ cocaine can cause this via thrombosis + vasoconstriction in those without heart disease
With AAS
- AAS also up regulate the sympathetic nervous system, beta adrenergic receptors (making us MORE sensitive to the effects of epinephrine, norepinephrine)ā¦ rodent models indicate they exacerbate the HR increase induced from cokeā¦ will also exacerbate proarrythmiac effects as epinephrine elicits such an effect (epinephrine primarily binds to beta 1 and beta 2 adrenergic receptors, norepinephrine primarily activates only the beta 1 adrenergic receptor). AAS also generally increase BP, induce endothelial dysfunction etc (more mechanisms but computer about to dieā¦ must make this quick)
Itās more than (this increases HR and BP)ā¦ itās about the directly proarrythmiac effect mediated by cocaine (should say prolonged coke use enlarges the heartā¦ dilated cardiomyopathy is a common complication amongst those who tough it it/afford to be able to use coke for years on end)ā¦ alcohol also enlarges the heart when abused over many yearsā¦ not quite as quickly as coke will though. AAS attenuate the proarrythmiac effect induced from coke, thatās why itās a particularly bad idea, when COMBINED with alcohol, itās an even worse idea.
Will you die? Probably not, but itās a small risk. The scientific words sound scarier than they actually are (still a TERRIBLE idea), but if you read the literature regarding cardiotoxic, neurotoxic mechanisms induced via AAS youād think āone shot of test and Iāll be a braindead, heart disease ridden individual on his death bed?ā
Just giving an honest, non biased answer here as Zeek told me to do prior (no fear mongering)
Cocaine? I donāt know what dose dependent effects are. Literature lumps in 5mg as being the same as 500mg. Given the prospect of compulsive redosing I doubt youāll just take one line
Generally it dramatically increases HR to the point of resting tachycardia + all the other mechanisms at play itās really, really hard on the body
If you have to do something irresponsible (whichā¦ You donāt, Iāve dropped the prospect of going out in favour of working out many times) couldnāt you do something else?
Sorry, but this rhetoric is out the window if youāre using high dose AAS at the time. Systematic toxicity + one hard night of drug useā¦ Revert back to inducing systematic toxicity
He probably wonāt die, but it isnāt a good decision at allā¦ Thereās a pretty big difference between having a few lines off vs on cycleā¦ And both situations are hard on the bodyā¦ But off cycle pales in comparison to on cycle use
Gear + coke + booze is literally how people die in their 30sā¦ I believe @studhammer knows 1-2 people who have died this way
Yep, just one actually. Late twenties probably, rumor was that he had a heart attack while doing coke.
Have another friend that was a walking pharmacy, never met a steroid he didnāt like, couple that with horrendous eating habits and he had a heart attack at 45. He was a single father. Left behind an 18 year old daughter.
How about some espresso to get hype then some hash to take the edge off, Morocco style?
Well, thatās very sadā¦ sorry for youāre loss.
Still, wouldnāt use coke + AAS, bad idea (I wouldnāt use coke at allā¦ ever) but thatās individualistic preference, no judgement towards those who do (unless youāre an addict who steals from/hurts others)
yeet. I was going to say cannabis dose dependently increases heart rate and blood pressure + caffeineā¦ then I thought, ābut cocaineā¦ā thatās going to increase HR/BP a whole lot more than a spliff ever could
You donāt present any good information on here yet you criticize unreal for his way of actually presenting information. And your argument is his age? Come back if you can either write from experience or knowledge. Letās see if you got the brains and the patience to even dig through some studies so you can write something useful
Somebody doesnāt need āexperience or knowledgeā to know that mixing alcohol and cocaine doesnāt go well, especially for somebody on AAS. That should be common sense unless youāre either stupid or playing dumb.
I donāt need to cite sources or prepare a thesis for me to state something that should be common knowledge. Nor does anyone need to dig through any studies to know that combining illegal drugs with anything is stupid. And to compare cocaine to weed or underage drinking is pretty stupid too.
Actually I indirectly know a few who have DIED from underage drinking alone, one other who slipped, cracked open the back of his head on a sidewalk and went into a coma. Whilst cocaine is comparatively more dangerous. Iāve yet to ever see someone OD on that alone.
This pretty much sums up my opinion pertaining to drug abuse. DAILY cannabis usage, aside from medicinal usage (not the āyouāve got a headache, go crazyā) is problematic, I can link about 100 studies showcasing it isnāt good for you.
Though Iād disagree ketamine and methadone are less harmful than weed (as this is talking about abuse). Before you say this graph is BSā¦ itās taken from a study published within the lancet, a widely revered, most prestigious medical journals to date.
Of course I think that figure is correct. Also consider thereās more access to alcohol, especially when compared to cocaine. Of course there will be more deaths from more people using it. Youāve read the science behind cocaine use? based on symptoms and dosing alone, which would you say can be more fatal?
A kid who tells other kids to use steroids has no business lecturing anyone on how bad weed is. Again, I donāt need 100 studies to show that adult weed-smoking is somehow harmful compared to cocaine or teenage steroid use.
But I donāt do thisā¦ terrible, moot argument. Once again an attack on the basis of my age.
Cannabis isnāt ābadā either, I smoke it about once monthly, itās fun
But youāve got use and abuse, daily use is abuse
Daily adult weed smoking is more harmful than we give it credit for.
Cocaine, though itās been stipulated cannabis alone when used frequently leads to deleterious cardiac alterations
Depends what demographic youāre engrained within. When I was 17 (alcohol being strictly regulated, albeit accepted). It wouldāve been easier for me to get cocaine (actually this isnāt trueā¦ Adults seem to be okay with 16+ and binge drinkingā¦ My parents werenāt though, thus for ME it wouldāve been easier as I didnāt have any 18+ friends at the time)
Iāve also never encouraged teenage steroid use, get out of here with that ādevils advocateā arguement/bullshit. I ALWAYS state itās bad. But occasionally youāll get a kid who honestly wants to use in a manner far more responsible than some of the 22-25 y/olds on here
You telling a kid that adults being irresponsible just to āplay devils advocateā convinced him otherwise after adults gave him some good recommendations.
I guess I abuse. Itā's no different than your faux-medical self medication that you prolly got off a fake doctor on this site.
Whenever you state that its bad, you love to add in ābut I do itā, or ābut teenagers are smart and can make their own choicesā. Hence why these contradictions make me bring up this guy:
I didnāt tell anyone to play devils advocate, fuck off with this bullshit argument youāve presented about 1,000 timesā¦ I learnt this phrase the other day
Youāre arguments are filled with āstraw manā rhetoric
What self medication. Iām prescribed TRT from an endocrinologist? Half of youāre posts (more than half) on the Pharma section fo this forum stem JUST to irritate people.
Right, you never told anyone to play devils advocate. You played devils advocate. Itās right there in one of the many threads where kids are askin about steroids.
Oh didnāt know you were prescribed because you also talked about āyour own irresponsible useā in that thread, but you also claim that what youāre doing isnāt really TRT in the TRT Credentials thread.
I did thisā¦ twice
Once about two years ago
A second time six months ago or so. It wasnāt intended as encouraging teenage steroid use. I was merely implying that some kid using 400mg isnāt doing as much harm as a 22 y/o using 700mg tren 500mg test 50mg dbol and so on. Iāve ALWAYS discouraged steroid use, teen or not
Either way, Iām done with this argument.
Yup, Iām prescribed 150mg weekly, I take 200-220mg weeklyā¦ sue me, Iām on such a massive cycleā¦ Iāve had to deal with a myriad of health issues throughout my life, I was diagnosed with hypogonadism when I was sixteen
What was the point of making that statement though? Of course adults can be irresponsible. Look at the dude who made THIS thread.
Taking more than youāre prescribed is self medication. But Iām sure you know more about your hypogonadism and myriad of health problems than your own endocrinologist. Thereās no way he would have TRT credentials like you doā¦
doctor