T Nation

Hard Drug Interactions with AAS

Hello,

I am currently starting the third week of my cycle.

Currently on Test E 500/week
Primo 400/week

Will be adding Oxandrolone on the 6th week and Winstrol on 8th.

Anyways, I have an event I really wish to attend to tomorrow. I am hoping to do some C and light drinking while I’m at this event. This will also be helpful on keeping myself clean for the upcoming 3 months.

How harmful can one night of these be considering primo and test is quite light. Any extremely dangerous interactions here or do you think one night won’t do much harm?

not a good combo… at all…

I’ve gone into prior mechanisms, I’ll write this up later when I have the time… this is going to be like a 2000 word response

Cocaine is LITERALLY the worse drug one can use on cycle… I take that back, due to hepatic transesterification, cocaine + alcohol is the worst

If you want to snort coke, drop down to a cruise dose… even then it’s one of the least safe substances one can acutely take (although tbh from the dozens of people I know who occasionally dabble with cocaine, I’ve yet to know anyone who has had a serious complication… addiction doesn’t count )… still… AAS+coke = no

1 Like

Well, I do know that it’s not something you should mess with while you’re on cycle.

Whenever I’m on cycle, I don’t even drink a single beer throughout the course so I’m not asking advice on abusing drugs and alcohol continuously. I’m just asking if it’s still a No for one off use. How risky is it for the liver and heart? Is there a chance that I might do some irreversible damage to my body? I’m not very educated about drug interactions which is why I’m concerned. What I’m talking about here is a couple beers and half a g.

Or you can not do any C since it’s you know, really expensive, illegal, and hard on your body even for one night.

I used a lot of coke when I was younger, and never, ever heard it called ‘C’.

Anyway. Coke is just a stupid drug to do, as fun as it may be. It’s too fucking hard on your body. I’m sure you’ve done it plenty of times before, but you probably know that you can end up in the ER just from coke and alcohol alone. Being on gear on top of everything just compounds the issue.

There’s a reason I haven’t touched the stuff in 15 years, lol.

1 Like

So… Zyzz didn’t die from coke… Zyzz had a congenital heart defect that was undiagnosed (leaky valve etc). Couple an undiagnosed heart defect predisposing him to arrhythmia, a metric fuck ton of cocaine, TREN, excessive alcohol intake, extreme dehydration and going into a sauna for a while… sudden cardiac death

The fact that it’s illegal doesn’t stop anyone. He’s using AAS to begin with, also illegal. I tried booze before I was eighteen… illegal (I take this back it actually wasn’t illigal because I was doing it on private property)… I smoke pot from time to time… illigal

Cocaethylene is formed via hepatic transesterification (reaction within the liver wherein the methyl group within cocaine is replaced with the ethyl group from booze). When cocaine is coadministered with booze, hepatically instead of forming Benzoylecgonine (a primarily inactive metabolite, hence coke alone doesn’t last very long), it forms ethylbenzoylecgonine (cocaethylene)… what’s interesting about this metabolite is pharmacologically it’s still active and can be used as a recreational drug in itself…

But in terms of facilitating cardiac arrhythmia it’s 20x more potent than coke alone, of which makes you 24x more likely to drop dead anyway. I’ve told soooo many kids not to use coke (in a non condescending way), and I’ve explained why coke + booze is bad… I always get the response “But I have a strong heart” or “naaaaaa, I’ve done it before”… stupid… stupid responses. Not judging, but if I’m being asked “is this safe” and I say “no it isn’t”… and the person doesn’t want to believe me… why ask in the first place?

I’ll say this, if you’re still going to use cocaine on cycle (ultra terrible idea in my opinion)… don’t combine with ANY amount of alcohol. I’m going to edit my initial post in the upcoming hours explaining why cocaine in general is terrible for you’re heart, why it’s terrible to mix that with AAS… Granted you’re not exactly on the most aggressive cycle… still doesn’t matter

Not all that risky

Risky

Well I mean, it’s unlikely but you could die (about statistically a 480x chance from baseline is coke alone makes you 24x more likely to drop dead from arrhythmia and cocoa ethylene is 20x that 24x… couple that with steroids and it’s like 3x480 so… this isn’t exactly how this works but 1440x more likely to drop dead at any moment during that night lol)

I know plenty that have experimented with blow a handful of times… they’re fine… they’re not dead BUT, they don’t mix blow + AAS. That’s like snorting powdered myocardial infarction (esp if done repeatedly)… then you’ve got the people who get addicted, given how expensive it is this is a fairly rapid deterioration. This is you’re decision to make, I wouldn’t recommend this at all (not based on addictive potential, based on cardiac risk)

1 Like

SO he did or didnt’ die from cocaine? It was easy for Zyzz’s family to make up some shit about a heart defect after his death - his mom was a cardiologist.

Wasn’t his mom that made that report, the toxicology report following his AUTOSPY found it CAD to be SCD induced via a congenital heart defect.

Many people die from cocaine, I believe Zyzz wasn’t one of them. His family had a well known history regarding heart problems/defects… the defect was congenital. In 2017 14,000 people died from cocaine alone in the US, 88,000 US citizens die from alcohol annually… proportionately the cocaine death rate is obviously higher given perhaps 10-20 percent of young kids use coke at least once, almost all drink…

Cocaine alone used once probably isn’t that dangerous, but very few only use it once and/or don’t combine it with other substances (alcohol). Statistically the majority of acute deaths involving coke are related to coke + alcohol or coke + additional stimulants. There’s no arguing it isn’t one of the most harmful substances one can take, look at this chart… hence why I get so annoyed when kids say “but I’ve got a strong heart”… sodium channel blockade, vasoconstriction, catecholamine release etc doesn’t care if you’re heart is strong

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6424313_Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse/link/5a567d51aca272bb6963ef22/download

Cocaine is secondary to heroin

He died from arrhythmia induced via cardiac defect, the arrhythmia was exacerbated via cocaine, tren, dehydration (which alone can induce electrolyte imbalance, facilitate lethal arrhythmia)

Cocaine or not, he was a ticking timebomb. Not many young kids die from acute usage of cocaine (though some do, this is the reason as to why I’ve never tried and never will use coke). Cocaine can facilitate V-fib in very large dosages. However, to say he died solely from the coke use would be ignorant given how many compounding variables were at play… it certainly didn’t help, but he didn’t die “from cocaine”

Not meaning to disrespect the dead here… but Zyzz… was an idiot, his entire life revolved around hedonistic pleasures. I believe there is a time and a place for everything, a medium… most activities within moderation are okay, but the Zyzz lifestyle was

  • tren
  • train to the bare minimum to get huge and rely on gear
  • copious amounts of drugs

I don’t think anyone living like this, cardiac defect or not will live very long. Perhaps he would’ve made it to 40 had the defect not been present. At 40 he would’ve probably died from… cardiac arrhythmia caused by a drug induced cardiomyopathy… had he not gotten his shit together, either way his life would’ve probably been cut short

You know what’s even MORE fucked up? Kids still idolise this guy

1 Like

You know what dude? Sorry I even asked. Thanks for the detailed write up tho :stethoscope:

Uncalled for… Stay out of the Pharma forum if all you’re going to do is attack people.

2 Likes

:troll:

Nobody “attacked” you here. Once again you nitpick at a technicality just so you can prepare an epic monologue and include your own social commentary.

Yeah, Zyzz didn’t die from coke alone, he died from the combination of AAS abuse, alcohol, and coke that the OP just happens to be asking about. Do you really believe that a cardiologist family with a history of heart defects wouldn’t run tests on a kid with a risky lifestyle? Thats why I think that disease is a straight up lie. The combination of coke, steroids, alcohol, and heat in a country that’s already hot is enough to do it.

A straight up lie, despite prior members within his immediate family having the exact same/similar defects… believe all the conspiracy theories you want. This isn’t about you attacking me… you didn’t attack me here until you decided to add in that stethoscope at the end. I didn’t include any “social commentary”, you merely made a comment here initially attacking this guy for his question… something which you’ve repeatedly done. I debunked that by stating cocaine overdose wasn’t Zyzz’s cause of death.

" Bodybuilder Aziz ’ Zyzz ’ Shavershian killed by heart defect . … The family received a copy of the official post-mortem report from the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, confirming a previously undiagnosed heart condition caused a cardiac arrest on August 5 while Mr Shavershian was holidaying in Thailand."

  • calling out a guy wanting to donate blood for "intravenous drug use” despite no such drug use being present. Then doubling down and stating a guy injecting test is at risk for HIV… so me injecting my doctors prescribed test isn’t risky… but if I fill 0.6ml with doctors prescribed test and the other 0.4 ml with black market I’m at risk for HIV…

  • consistently making snarky little comments/propping up memes within subthreads created revolving around AAS use… you never contribute or dispense useful advice, and when approached with facts you attack those based on character such as myself

Op happened to be asking about the interactions, not about the death of Zyzz, someone who died from complications pertaining to a cardiac defect exacerbated via drug use… his family didn’t cover up anything, this isn’t some sort of conspiracy theory. As a matter of fact, they could’ve kept the records secret. It was well known he was coked out that night, the family had nothing to hide. Instead you post a pic of Zyzz and make a snarky comment about cocaine being illegal despite the fact that you use drugs on a DAILY basis. Whilst cannabis may not be cocaine, not even close… I dislike those who get all uppity on the basis of "I just drink… I just smoke pot so I’m better than other people who use drugs…” you’re not on par with someone shooting fentanyl… but I’d take snorting a line/popping a pill a few times per year over smoking pot daily for recreational use (though just by personal preference I’d never touch cocaine… and medicinal marijuana doesn’t count)…. daily use is habitual, problematic use even to the point wherein I can link literature demonstrating such use isn’t healthy, may lead to cognitive deficits.

I’m not saying multiple precipitating factors didn’t induce his death. I’m stating his autospy/widely reported COD (something I’m more open to believing than you’re anecdotal opinion) states the death was induced via cardiac defect.

Why ARE you on the Pharma forum. You state you intend to not be natty one day, though not any time soon. You accuse me of nitpicking, yet you nitpick at peoples threads, every now and then pop in to state what an idiot someone is. You aren’t well versed regarding the pharmacodynamics/pharmacokinetics of these drugs… nor do you use them to begin with… as a matter of fact you’ve self professed that you’re a “natty elitist”… whats the point of being on the Pharma forum… Furthermore you’re argumentative personality and tendency to be incredibly rude, ignorant and ill-mannered would be heavily exacerbated on gear… I personally think you’re a terrible candidate for use (in before you make the same comment about me given I’ve never ran a “cycle”)

The fact that Zyzz had a familial history of heart disease makes me inclined to believe his family was telling the truth

1 Like

WHoops sorry doctor

1 Like

just do it dont go super hard with it. its one night your body is resilient and can bounce back as long as your not constantly abusing together you will survive and recover.

Would you say ketamine is a safer alternative? AFAIK it doesn’t increase heart rate/blood pressure as long as the doses are kept low.

Why exactly do you want to do hard drugs so bad? and why are you asking a kid with a high school education for medical advice?

jus do the blow its one night #YOLO

Well I have a birthday I have to attend to. And if I do attend it, I know for a fact that I’ll get fucked up. Just trying to plan it so I stay safe.

1 Like

some things are just unavoidable when your with the bois nose beers and hookers tend to just happen