T Nation


Just wanted to let every body know just in case you don’t already. Friday 14 June is of course Flag Day in the good old United States of America ! Also on this day 14 June 2002 I would like to wish A Great Big TESTOSTERONE HAPPY 227th BIRTHDAY TO THE GREATEST LAND FORCE IN THE WORLD THE U.S ARMY! When other nations dial their emergency help request lines. America and her military has always responded, so to all of you who have issues with our great nation we may not agree with everything you may have to say about us, but as freedom loving people we will defend to the death your right to say it.With of course help from our friends and allies, so HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO THE UNITED STATES ARMY ! For Freedom is not free.

May it disband soon…

Defex, don’t worry. Soon you will get hair on your little balls, and if you are fortunate your brain will start to form soon thereafter. Hopefully this will positively effect your already sunny disposition. Good luck, kid!

Why don’t you crawl right back under that fucking rock you live under and keep that shit hole under your nose shut.

As a former Army Officer, I would also like to wish the Army Happy birthday.
Defex, Son, I have provided you with advice when you screwed the pooch, sent you a joke to make you laugh and I wish you well in all things. But the US army is needed and will be needed for a long time. It is a tool for use by our government and as such can be used wronging at times. But all and all you will not find a bunch of people who care more, have high ideals than those that service in the military, law enforcement and fire departments across this great land. It is easy to nea say, but do you stand for sometime large than yourself? If so great! If not think about it.

Defex, you are a sick little misguided boy who has done nothing but screw up all the time. A little time in the service of the country you seem to hate so much might do your pathetic self image some good. Other than that, I fear you may have as miserable an adulthood as you obviously have had a childhood.

Sure, the US has a great army and it has done some good.

But it has not always ridden in to save the day. ANd it is not always the weapon of purity adn freedom. It is just as often the weapon of politics adn self-interest, and while the USA may be the leader of the free world it is also the only country who size allows actions which are wholly dominated by self-interest to be carried out.

Some brainless fuck in another thread said the British wuld be speaking german if not for the USA. Bollocks. Historically speaking, the US army wasn’t hugely effective in Europe as a total fighting force, sure, they gained expertisde, but it was numbers that they initially brought - this is not an attempt to down play their contribution just putting it in historical context.

Similarly, your elite forces are good, but so are other specialist forces. I doubt even the elite green berets [?] would be stupid enough to take on the gurkhas in the mountains etc.

Finally, tho, and now worryingly - the USA no longer defends to the death the right of people to disagree with them. Citing Bush, “you are either our ally or our enemy regarding terrorism”. So much, militarily for neutral countries like Switzerland.

iscariot, please. Do you really think that Bush is going to attack (or otherwise take punitive action against) Switzerland? Politicians live for rhetoric - learn to take it in context.

As for our supposedly negligible contribution to the European theater in WWII, whether it was expertise or numbers is completely beside the point. Our presence made the difference. End of story.

As for Defex, would you care to actually give some reasoning as to why you keep posting your anti-US drivel? Or would that be too much to ask? (I guess it’s a lot easier to sling off a few slogans than to actually have to compose a reasoned argument…)

Actually, Europe would have been speaking German or Japanese. Good thing we kept the Japanese busy, and etc. “Finally, tho, and now worryingly - the USA no longer defends to the death the right of people to disagree with them. Citing Bush, “you are either our ally or our enemy regarding terrorism”. So much, militarily for neutral countries like” Switzerland. Um, yeah that sounds right. If you support terrorists bent on killing us, you’re our enemy. Neutral or not, any country could be a target if it allowed Bin and his buddies to operate unhindered within their borders. What is so controversial about that? What a stupid thing to use against Bush. You damn right you better support us in arresting terrorists in your country. Because if one more building goes down, or some asswipe lets off a radiological bomb…Let’s just say that any country that aided-hell, just allowed-them to carry this out, is next on the shit list. I’m not talking about countries that didn’t know terrorist were using their countries as hideouts. I’m speaking of countries that knew outright, and sat by. By the way, Switzerland remained neutral for the money. Read they made a shit load of Nazi Money. Why fight when you can play both sides? Even if one side is bent on genocide.

Iscariot-First of all you would be speaking German. The French were over run, Paris was in German control. The British were so bombed out and war ridden,…it was only a matter of time. 2nd if it wasn’t the Army that was largely effective in Europe who was it? 3rd The Army also had the U.S. Marines which also played a major role. Beallou Wood ever heard of it, Normady, Omaha Beach. I can break out the history book if you like. To Defex- Boy, you’ve over stepped your boundries. If you’re a coward, just say so. Hey! Everyone, I’m a pud! I can run my mouth and like to say what I want, but I don’t have the courage to back it up and/or fight for “my rights”. I would rather let others sacrifice so I sit my skinny, smug, ungrateful little ass behind my computer and give uneducated opinions about the world.

Defex when are you going to learn to shut your pie hole up? I have never heard so much shit come out of someone’s mouth before. Why don’t you do us all a favor and stop posting your idiotic views about our country. When you have something intelligent to say you may come back but I doubt you ever will. If you harbour so much hatred for the USA then GET THE FUCK OUT.

You have dumbfounded many of us on the forum by your assine statement. If our country hadn’t gotten involved in WWII you surely would be speaking German. Obviously you have forgotten your history, correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t Britain bombed to hell by the Germans. All of Europe was getting their asses kicked,including your beloved Britain, until The United States became involved in the war. I guess that is a fine thanks coming from you for the US saving your ass.

OK a few comments [I wish I knew how to make this damn thing do spaces between paragraphs - so apologies for any confusion].

Firstly, I’ll rephrase. Sure the US Army made a difference in WW2, but it was not because of their expertise. Remember, they like all the other powers had not been involved in a war scenario on that scale since WW1 [which they didn’t join until 1917]. Basically, they weren’t prepared. Of course there are examples, like Omaha Beach, were the marines did make a difference, but these were later into the war. And let’s be honest, the USA would never, due to it’s foreign policy of the time, have even entered WW2 if the japanese hadn’t attacked at Pearl Harbour. Actually, Pearl Harbour is a definitive event in world politics in that it changed US foreign policy from the oisolationist stance wheich it had been since the beginning of the century to interventionist.

Point the second: The German advance through the low countuies and France would not have necessarily gotten to England. Let’s face it, the Frenh haven’t been an effective military force since Napoleon. Also the blitzkrieg offence initiated by the Germans would never have worked on England [probably because there was an ocean in the way]. Note: the offense against Britian had essentially failed by the time the US entered the war. Probably because the Luftwaffe was running out of planes and Hitler had opened up a third front with Russia. Also note: Hitler far preferred to have England as an Ally or neutral - it was only because Britain, because of its treaty with POland and thus felt duty-bound to declare war on Germany when it attacked POland, that it in turn was attacked.

OK - context point: I didn’t say that Bush would declare war on Switzerland, what I said was there was no middle ground in terms of his policy where does that leave traditionally neutral countries like Switzerland who are obviously not going to agree with terrorism but militarily will stay out of the way. Please also note: When the UN passed a resolution against terrorism several years ago only two countries opposed it: The USA and Israel…

I was, also interested to see that people had a go at me for apparently saying the US didn’t amek a difference but no-one chipped in about the reasons why the US army is often used.

Now don’t go getting me wrong, I have nothing against the army - but there are two sides to everything.

“You have dumbfounded many of us on the forum by your assine statement”.

Ummmm - for a start, the word you’re after is assinine. Dumbfounding some of you considering your comments isn’t that hard by the sound of things. The jingoistic ranting anytime someone says anything vaguely critical or even non rah-rah about the US is truly something to behold. Here’s a newsflash for you; the USA has done heaps for the world in many areas, but it is not perfect, it is not above critique or criticism. The blind, reflexive defense of such is of more concern than many of the pupported arguments put forward as defense.

" If our country hadn’t gotten involved in WWII you surely would be speaking German".

Since I am not living in Britain that would have been a major shock - why do you and others assume that I live there?

" Obviously you have forgotten your history,"

With an honours degree in European history that is not very likely. And if you’re going to make statements like that, then I can reasonably respond that if you are like over 80% of Americans I am surprised that you even know the rest of the world exists.

" All of Europe was getting their asses kicked,including your beloved Britain, until The United States became involved in the war."

And you tell me I don’t know my history… snort By the end of 1941 Germany was over-extended. There was no way it had the resources to take over Britain, esp with OPeration Sealion [or WTF it was called, memory lapse] was scrapped. The front it had opened with Russia was bleeding it dry of resources and the Italian regime was tottering about like a drunk. So I’ll say it again, and I’ll say it slowly for you. The. USA. Helped. But. They. Did. Not. Ride. IN. Like. The Cavalry. and. Save. the. Day

Please don’t lecture me about history until you get a clue

I’ll have another go at 'cha. Please clairify the part about there being two sides to every story. Are you referring to our supposed alternate motives behind using our Armed Forces? All I’m going to say is, if we use them there is a reason. Wether there be a self serving alternate motive or not. The general principal behind it still stands, we are there to preserve peace and protect civil liberties at all costs (AKA freedom). If we stand to profit from the experience, we deserve it. We’re the ones who made the sacrifice. Any other country would do the same thing given the chance.

Jesus christ, it was a joke. You guys are so fucking uptight about your damn country. Yes, yes, I know I don’t know anything about my country, I’m a teen. Yes, I’m a screw up. I really love you guys too!

To make the paragraphs seperate, put two of these:


But take out the |. The are line breaks. One is like pushing enter to get the next line. A second one puts a line between the paragraphs. Hopefully that shows up right.

Iscariot, I have heard more than one British army general from WWII, when interviewed, say that, even WITH the involvement of the US, WWII was still, “a rather close shave.” Their point being that, WITHOUT the US getting involved, there is no way in blackest Hell that Britain would’ve won the thing. Sorry, you can spin it however you want. You’re wrong. The Germans were occupying ALL of Western Europe before the US got involved, and sooner or later WOULD have taken Britain. NO ONE would have been able to push them out of ANY of the territory they had conquered. Call it a white horse if you want, but that fact is that the US DID save Europe’s (AND Britain’s) ass in WWII. Gotta love all the “thanks” we get for it, though. Revisionism is quite transparent.

I agree with iscariot when it comes to the European history part. The British air power was destroying the German’s air power. The use of radar and superior pilots helped a lot. Also the Germans were running out of supplies in the fight against Russia. I remember hearing on historical tv program that the extreme cold was getting to the Germans as well. I think having a day of celebration that respects the military is a great idea. Being in the military is one of the most important and thankless jobs a person can have.

First of all, your spelling is ATROCIOUS! I find it humourous that someone who cannot spell and (adn) would lecture ANYONE on spelling. So you are an English history major, huh. Well, then, how about reading a little about Lend-Lease. Remember that little American contribution to WWII? Read what Churchill said about how close the British were to starving to death from the U-Boat threat? Where do you think Britain obtained a large portion of their tanks, aircraft, and other ground equipment? Ever read anything about Roosevelt? Ever heard how hard he was trying to involve the United States in the war by 1941?
You speak about America’s contributions on the battlefield. I am stunned by your lack of knowledge. Let’s start with WWI. Remember how the defeat of Russia in 1917 allowed 1 million more men from Germany to be transferred to the Western front. Remember how quickly these men began to overun the English/French front lines? Remember how little ground had been gained against the Germans from 1914-1918. Ever hear of “Blackjack” Pershing? Take a look at who was the DIRECT cause of turning the ground war in 1918. The doughboys won battle after battle. As for experience, you worthless twit, how does one gain experience on the field of battle? By fighting of course. Take a look at Bellau Wood. Take a peek at our drive through France soon after we had enough manpower.
Now to World War II. If America had not poured her largesse into England, England would have fallen. The Soviet Union would have fallen? Remember, the heavy water experiments? The Germans were light years ahead of Britain and the USSR. The atomic bomb would have been used on both Britain and the USSR. Remember, that the Germans were at the gates of Moscow on Dec. 7, 1941. Remember that England had been kicked all over the world (Even with our huge Lend-Lease contribution.) Ever heard of operation Torch? We liberated ALL of North Africa. England had had exactly one major victory against Rommel before the United States gained steam, at El Alamein. Ike, Bradley, and Patton made short work of the Germans in North Africa. Remember Sicily? Patton was given the more difficult role, protecting Montgomery’s flank? Who reached Palermo first? Remember, Italy? Now who the hell do you think deserves the lion share of the credit? How about D-Day? Remember, Omaha and Utah beaches? They were by far the most heavily defended? Remember the air war over France and Germany? Who had the vast majority of the bombers an the fighters? Remember the drive from France into Germany? Who had to halt to let the French liberate Paris for a symbolic victory? Who had to halt so they wouldn’t take Berlin before the Russians? The Americans of course. You know, pal, I do not have a degree in history. All of this was off the top of my head. Don’t make comments about how 80% of Americans cant do this or that. Has your country won any Nobel prizes lately? Made any significant scientific discoveries in the last CENTURY? Can’t wait for your response.