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Hamstring and ATP

Before, I’ll sum up what I read about hamstring and ATP (1); then I’ll make a personal question (2).

1)I figure that generally muscle can be:
a) weak and stretched
b)strong and stretched
c) strong and tight
d) weak and tight

I can’t understand how hamstrings are in anterior pelvic tilt.
Some authors (Mike Robertson) write that they are stretched and weak; other authors (Eric Cressey) write that they overwork; other A. write they are tight.
Other researches write that we can’t find any relationship between hamstring inflexibility and lombar curve: sometimes lordosis is follwed by hams tightness; others not.

(2)Now, suppose that hams are weak and tight (I figure it’s my case).
Does it make sense trying to increase both strenght and flexibility? Or we can’t work stretnght and flex togheter?

I’m going to assume that English is not your native language since your post was nearly incomprehensible.

(“2)Now, suppose that hams are weak and tight (I figure it’s my case).
Does it make sense trying to increase both strenght and flexibility? Or we can’t work stretnght and flex togheter?”

How about Romanian dead lifts? They build hamstring strength and increase flexibility. That is just one example of a simple compound lift that develops both strength and flexibility simultaneously.

Oh BTW, most people with any background in Biology Chemistry or Physiology use the abbreviation ATP for Adenosine triphosphate by convention. Using it as an abbr. for anterior pelvic tilt is confusing and unnecessary.

Sorry for my english.
Sometimes, I read that american guys use ATP as abbreviaton for anterior pelvic tilt. But I figure that APT is better.

You wrote that Romanian deadlift increases flexibility.
I think this is true for inactive people that begin to work out, because the principles of training/detraining (aka “use it or lose it”).
I do not know if this is correct for well trained people. With RDL the hamstring are slightly stretched. If during a set of weight, you do not stretch totally the muscle, the muscle reduces its lenght (Borrelli and Fick). Thus, ROM is reduced.
So, I think that your opinion is not correct.

When I ask “what do you think to train both flexibility and strenght?”, I mean: what do you think to add heavy stretching session to weight training for a guy with APT?
By the other way, I’m sure that this kink of training increases both strenght and flexibility. I do not know if increasing flexibility is good or bad for a guy like me that is AT and has tight hamstring.

If you perform them from a platform you will definitely get a dynamic stretch. If you are using an Olympic barbell and pulling from the floor, then there will obviously be less stretching involved.

I don’t think Cressey and Robertson disagree on this topic. A person could just have different causes for their APT.

In your case, your hamstrings are probably tight, overstretched, weak AND overworked. Maybe this is hard to understand in your language.

Anyway, I’d follow the advice at the end of the Hips Don’t Lie article (I think I saw you refer to it earlier). Stretch and foam roll the hip flexors and strengthen the hamstrings with a full ROM. Don’t statically stretch the hamstrings.

thank you, guys!
HoratioSandoval, I can translate what you wrote, but I can’t understand how a muscle can be both weak AND overworked.
I thought hamstrings are weak when they are underworked and they are strong when they are overworked.

Anyway, if the hamstrings are tight, why do you think that statically stretching can be harmfull or should be avoided?

I hope I wrote in a comprehensible english :smiley:

If a muscle is too long (maybe overworked) it can’t contract at maximum force. See the length-tension curve graph below. If the muscle is too long, the muscle filaments do not fully overlap and therefore can’t slide over each other efficiently. I imagine ‘sarcomere’ is the same word in any language.

Also, when a muscle is overworked it may lay down scar tissue. Scar tissue will prevent the muscle from contracting along its full length.

I would avoid static stretching of your hamstrings.

Improve gluteal and hamstring strength - dynamically and statically stretch your quadriceps.

.

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[quote]HoratioSandoval wrote:
If a muscle is too long (maybe overworked) it can’t contract at maximum force. See the length-tension curve graph below. If the muscle is too long, the muscle filaments do not fully overlap and therefore can’t slide over each other efficiently. I imagine ‘sarcomere’ is the same word in any language.

Also, when a muscle is overworked it may lay down scar tissue. Scar tissue will prevent the muscle from contracting along its full length.
[/quote]

When I read “Hips don’t lie”, I thought that hamstrings do not work efficently because they are too long.
Your answer confirms my thought.

At this point, I have 2 questions:
a)first of all, if they are too long…why are they tight?! :open_mouth:

b) By the other side, I can’t understand why if a muscle is too long, it can be overworked.
As you write “If the muscle is too long, the muscle filaments do not fully overlap and therefore can’t slide over each other efficiently”.
If they can’t slide over each other efficiently, does it mean that the muscle in underworking? If so, hamstrings in APT sholdn’t be underworked?

Considering your lack of understanding of basic exercise, and biomechanics, what makes you think that your hamstrings are weak and stretched?

For correct posture you do not need more flexibility than is needed in a stiff legged deadlift, or a RDL.

You seem to be mixing basic and advanced exercise concepts with basic and advanced biology concepts with basic and advanced biomechanics.

Example, is "b) By the other side, I can’t understand why if a muscle is too long, it can be overworked. "

“Overworked” is an exercise concept, not a biology definition for muscle fibers. Don’t mix them and you might understand better. Try to understand that “Overworked” means the muscle hasn’t recovered, and will likely not recover at the normal rate for the person working out. There is not set biology definition such as your fiber length has increased 10% and atp storage is reduced by 50%.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
1)Considering your lack of understanding of basic exercise, and biomechanics, what makes you think that your hamstrings are weak and stretched?

2)For correct posture you do not need more flexibility than is needed in a stiff legged deadlift, or a RDL.

3)You seem to be mixing basic and advanced exercise concepts with basic and advanced biology concepts with basic and advanced biomechanics.

Example, is "b) By the other side, I can’t understand why if a muscle is too long, it can be overworked. "

“Overworked” is an exercise concept, not a biology definition for muscle fibers. Don’t mix them and you might understand better. Try to understand that “Overworked” means the muscle hasn’t recovered, and will likely not recover at the normal rate for the person working out. There is not set biology definition such as your fiber length has increased 10% and atp storage is reduced by 50%.
[/quote]

1)some expert people (in not particular order: chiro; pilates teacher; kisesiologist; physiotherapist; Ortopedic) tested my posture and diagnosed tight and weak hamstring.

  1. I know that I do not need a lot of flexibility for a good posture. But I want flexible hamstrings for performace. I would like to know:if I do improve my hamstrings’flexibility, can this exacerbate my APT problem or not?

3)I do not want mix concepts and your post can help me to avoid mixing.
I didn’t undersrtand correctly the term “overworked”. I thought that “overworked muscle” was referred to indicate the “overactive” muscle (for example, hips in APT).

Because I’ve a lack of undrestanding of basic exercise*, can you explain me please the correlation between this 2 concepts: overactive and lenght muscle.
Eric Cressey and Mike Robertson write: “The core and glutes are inhibited; the hip flexors, hamstrings and erector spinae are overactive. This results in anterior pelvic tilt and exaggerated lordosis (swayback).”
In Hips don’t lie, Mike Robertson write that hamstring in APT are lenght and weak.
So, can a muscle be overactive and weak/lenght at the same time?
I’m not the only one to have a bad understanding of these concepts: http://www.T-Nation.com/tmagnum/readTopic.do?id=2048266
You help is very well accepted!

*I’m new to biomechanic, because my first love was biochemistry. I began to read about biomechanic because I had several problems with my neck.
In every case, be kind and consider that sometimes it’s not a matter of lack of knowladge, but the diffuclty to translate some words (especially when they have a lot of meanings, like overworked).