T Nation

Hamas Kills Mickey Mouse

http://tv.msn.com/tv/article.aspx?news=267405&GT1=7703

Hamas TV Kills Off Mickey Mouse Double
Jun 29, 1:48 PM EST

The Associated Press

GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – A Mickey Mouse lookalike who preached Islamic domination on a Hamas-affiliated children’s television program was beaten to death in the show’s final episode Friday.

In the final skit, “Farfour” was killed by an actor posing as an Israeli official trying to buy Farfour’s land. At one point, the mouse called the Israeli a “terrorist.”

“Farfour was martyred while defending his land,” said Sara, the teen presenter. He was killed “by the killers of children,” she added.

The weekly show, featuring a giant black-and-white rodent with a high-pitched voice, had attracted worldwide attention because the character urged Palestinian children to fight Israel. It was broadcast on Hamas-affiliated Al Aqsa TV.

Station officials said Friday that Farfour was taken off the air to make room for new programs. Station manager Mohammed Bilal said he did not know what would be shown instead.

Israeli officials have denounced the program, “Tomorrow’s Pioneers,” as incendiary and outrageous. The program was also opposed by the state-run Palestinian Broadcasting Corp., which is controlled by Fatah, Hamas’ rival.

These people are fucked up.

This shit is very, very scary… about as scary as Jesus Camp… and that scared the ever loving piss outta me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hTwDZ1GQxc&mode=related&search=

I had really hoped to find the video of Farfours martyrdom at the hands of a zionist opressor, but I guess I can`t have it all…

This is common over there. Propaganda and brainwashing is standard fare, and yes this is something to fear.

[quote]The Mage wrote:
This is common over there. Propaganda and brainwashing is standard fare, and yes this is something to fear.[/quote]

You know this is common because… how?

For all you know, this could be as common as the Jesus Camp brainwashings in the bible belt of the US.

Have you spent years living there? Talked to the people? Watched a lot of there TV?

If so, I apologize. If not, shut the hell up.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
The Mage wrote:
This is common over there. Propaganda and brainwashing is standard fare, and yes this is something to fear.

You know this is common because… how?

For all you know, this could be as common as the Jesus Camp brainwashings in the bible belt of the US.

Have you spent years living there? Talked to the people? Watched a lot of there TV?

If so, I apologize. If not, shut the hell up.[/quote]

Yes, reasearch from people like Benny Morris, Lewis, Juergensmeyer etc is NOT important, the only important and credible source of information is yourself, you should preferably be a leftist (a radical leftist), wear a shemag and think that USA and Israel are imperialist bastards. That is the zen and only way to the truth.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip – A Mickey Mouse lookalike who preached Islamic domination on a Hamas-affiliated children’s television program was beaten to death in the show’s final episode Friday.

In the final skit, “Farfour” was killed by an actor posing as an Israeli official trying to buy Farfour’s land. At one point, the mouse called the Israeli a “terrorist.”[/quote]

Now the kids understand what will happen to them if they fuck with Israel.

Educational and violent. What’s not to like?

[quote]Adamsson wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
The Mage wrote:
This is common over there. Propaganda and brainwashing is standard fare, and yes this is something to fear.

You know this is common because… how?

For all you know, this could be as common as the Jesus Camp brainwashings in the bible belt of the US.

Have you spent years living there? Talked to the people? Watched a lot of there TV?

If so, I apologize. If not, shut the hell up.

Yes, reasearch from people like Benny Morris, Lewis, Juergensmeyer etc is NOT important, the only important and credible source of information is yourself, you should preferably be a leftist (a radical leftist), wear a shemag and think that USA and Israel are imperialist bastards. That is the zen and only way to the truth.

[/quote]
Show me this research please? The research, if it is valid (and I have heard of or read things by both Benny Morris and others like him) still doesn’t point to this being common all over the Arabic world.

I don’t really think Israel is imperialist. At all. I think Israel is defending itself in a hostile environment, and using the US as its back up to prevent it’s ultimate destruction. I think some people seriously play down the Israelites level of ruthlessness (which I think can be justified sometimes, but not all the time).

I think the US has not been as Imperialist as the classical imperial powers of the past, but we are certainly messing around in a place where we shouldn’t be.

I do not lean that far to the left. I am not a communist. I think communism is stupid and idealistic. I just happen to think the same of a purely capitalist society. If anything, even ‘leftists’ of American politics lean far to the right of most of Europe. I like it that way too.

It seemed however, that he was making an assumption based not on copious research collected by another, but on a single internet article.

So you come here, make assumptions about me (an Ad Hominem argument), you appeal to the authority of another before unmentioned source (another fallacy), and try to discredit me, while I did nothing but point out that we do not know how common propaganda like this is.

I admit, my argument was not the best (I didn’t mean he actually had to LIVE there of course, and I should have included research of someone who HAD lived there).

But yours is just ridiculous.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:
Adamsson wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
The Mage wrote:
This is common over there. Propaganda and brainwashing is standard fare, and yes this is something to fear.

You know this is common because… how?

For all you know, this could be as common as the Jesus Camp brainwashings in the bible belt of the US.

Have you spent years living there? Talked to the people? Watched a lot of there TV?

If so, I apologize. If not, shut the hell up.

Yes, reasearch from people like Benny Morris, Lewis, Juergensmeyer etc is NOT important, the only important and credible source of information is yourself, you should preferably be a leftist (a radical leftist), wear a shemag and think that USA and Israel are imperialist bastards. That is the zen and only way to the truth.

Show me this research please? The research, if it is valid (and I have heard of or read things by both Benny Morris and others like him) still doesn’t point to this being common all over the Arabic world.

I don’t really think Israel is imperialist. At all. I think Israel is defending itself in a hostile environment, and using the US as its back up to prevent it’s ultimate destruction. I think some people seriously play down the Israelites level of ruthlessness (which I think can be justified sometimes, but not all the time).

I think the US has not been as Imperialist as the classical imperial powers of the past, but we are certainly messing around in a place where we shouldn’t be.

I do not lean that far to the left. I am not a communist. I think communism is stupid and idealistic. I just happen to think the same of a purely capitalist society. If anything, even ‘leftists’ of American politics lean far to the right of most of Europe. I like it that way too.

It seemed however, that he was making an assumption based not on copious research collected by another, but on a single internet article.

So you come here, make assumptions about me (an Ad Hominem argument), you appeal to the authority of another before unmentioned source (another fallacy), and try to discredit me, while I did nothing but point out that we do not know how common propaganda like this is.

I admit, my argument was not the best (I didn’t mean he actually had to LIVE there of course, and I should have included research of someone who HAD lived there).

But yours is just ridiculous. [/quote]

Yes, pointing out that “you have to live there to have an opinion” is a ridiculous argument, how could I DO THAT?!

A quick and interesting list of books you could dive into:

What Went Wrong?: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East - Bernard Lewis

History of the Arab Peoples - Hourani

Another interesting piece of statistics is that you’ll find in “the end of faith” by sam harris, where you can see that 82% of muslims in Libanon, over 70% in the ivory coast think that suicide bombs directed at civilians can be a justified way of defending Islam (note, not some national home, statehood… but ISLAM!?). And the list continues (and the most extreme countries are not on the list, plus, this is in 2002, things haeven’t become any better) for quite some bit.

The fact is that Islam is a problem in the world today. Religion generally is a problem, but Islam particularly so right now.

(And yes, pointing out the fact that there is research on areas is a bad, bad case of appeal to authority, how could I NOT see that…)

[quote]Adamsson wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
Adamsson wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
The Mage wrote:
This is common over there. Propaganda and brainwashing is standard fare, and yes this is something to fear.

You know this is common because… how?

For all you know, this could be as common as the Jesus Camp brainwashings in the bible belt of the US.

Have you spent years living there? Talked to the people? Watched a lot of there TV?

If so, I apologize. If not, shut the hell up.

Yes, reasearch from people like Benny Morris, Lewis, Juergensmeyer etc is NOT important, the only important and credible source of information is yourself, you should preferably be a leftist (a radical leftist), wear a shemag and think that USA and Israel are imperialist bastards. That is the zen and only way to the truth.

Show me this research please? The research, if it is valid (and I have heard of or read things by both Benny Morris and others like him) still doesn’t point to this being common all over the Arabic world.

I don’t really think Israel is imperialist. At all. I think Israel is defending itself in a hostile environment, and using the US as its back up to prevent it’s ultimate destruction. I think some people seriously play down the Israelites level of ruthlessness (which I think can be justified sometimes, but not all the time).

I think the US has not been as Imperialist as the classical imperial powers of the past, but we are certainly messing around in a place where we shouldn’t be.

I do not lean that far to the left. I am not a communist. I think communism is stupid and idealistic. I just happen to think the same of a purely capitalist society. If anything, even ‘leftists’ of American politics lean far to the right of most of Europe. I like it that way too.

It seemed however, that he was making an assumption based not on copious research collected by another, but on a single internet article.

So you come here, make assumptions about me (an Ad Hominem argument), you appeal to the authority of another before unmentioned source (another fallacy), and try to discredit me, while I did nothing but point out that we do not know how common propaganda like this is.

I admit, my argument was not the best (I didn’t mean he actually had to LIVE there of course, and I should have included research of someone who HAD lived there).

But yours is just ridiculous.

Yes, pointing out that “you have to live there to have an opinion” is a ridiculous argument, how could I DO THAT?!

A quick and interesting list of books you could dive into:

What Went Wrong?: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East - Bernard Lewis

History of the Arab Peoples - Hourani

Another interesting piece of statistics is that you’ll find in “the end of faith” by sam harris, where you can see that 82% of muslims in Libanon, over 70% in the ivory coast think that suicide bombs directed at civilians can be a justified way of defending Islam (note, not some national home, statehood… but ISLAM!?). And the list continues (and the most extreme countries are not on the list, plus, this is in 2002, things haeven’t become any better) for quite some bit.

The fact is that Islam is a problem in the world today. Religion generally is a problem, but Islam particularly so right now.

(And yes, pointing out the fact that there is research on areas is a bad, bad case of appeal to authority, how could I NOT see that…)[/quote]

Saying “so-and-so says Muslims are bad, and he’s an expert” is by no means an argument.

The Sam Harris statistic, however, is valid evidence for an argument, if that’s what we were argueing about. This is called a straw-man.

We are not talking about whether or not Muslims think bombings are justified. We are not even argueing over the views or beliefes of Muslims in anyway. We are arguing over whether or not you can honestly say that most of the Muslim world is filled with propaganda just like this, and that it is a problem.

The burden of proof is on you. Recommending books is a start. Actually quoting said books would be better. Finding evidence of widespread propaganda in a majority of Muslim nations would be best.

I’m not even disputing the fact that propaganda exists and is bad. I’m disputing your claim that you KNOW that a majority of Muslims are exposed to this kind of thing continuously.

[quote]Beowolf wrote:

You know this is common because… how?

For all you know, this could be as common as the Jesus Camp brainwashings in the bible belt of the US.

Have you spent years living there? Talked to the people? Watched a lot of there TV?

If so, I apologize. If not, shut the hell up.[/quote]

Thank you for your intelligent discussion on the subject.

This has been the subject of various documentaries, on the likes of History and Discovery channels. The radical form of Islam can actually be traced to one person, (who’s name escapes me right now,) right after the fall of the Ottoman empire, who thought the reason the Muslims were losing their power to the western �??Christian�?? ideals was due to their not following the doctrines of Islam more extremely.

This has evolved into what is going on today. Schools and mosques in the Mideast often teach extreme and dangerous beliefs to children. Interestingly the main source of this extreme teaching seems to be coming out of Saudi Arabia.

It was nice of you to twist the discussion to calling Christians brainwashed, but there are no similarities. Christians are generally taught to love, while the extreme form of Islam teaches hate. (And naturally you will argue this.)

A good source of information on the subject is Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist.

Here is one interview with him, though I have not heard it, but I have listened to him before, and he imparts a lot of information.

http://www.shoebat.com/media/gerryryanshow06072004.mp3

Now having read further into your arguments, was this directed at me?

If so, where did you get this idea? What specifically did I say that pointed to a single internet article? If so then you need to explain why you argue against making assumptions while making them.

I do disagree with Adamsson with the idea that Islam is a problem, but state instead that it is �??extreme�?? Islam that is the problem.

I personally wouldn’t say that a majority of Muslims are exposed to this brainwashing, but enough of them are, and it starts at early childhood.

[quote]The Mage wrote:
I personally wouldn’t say that a majority of Muslims are exposed to this brainwashing, but enough of them are, and it starts at early childhood.[/quote]

As a Muslim who’s been around most Islamic countries, I agree with your first statement.

The second one is tricky. “Enough” being a very subjective term. I’ll therefore ask you to be more specific.

Muslims - of my generation or younger - know more about Hollywood or the tribulations of Paris Hilton than they do about Muhammad. Saying that they’re exposed to propaganda is quite far fetched. One needs only to look at the number of satellite dishes on roof tops in Arab countries to realize that. Most Arab channels are a lot more liberal than one might think. Often, downright decadent.

Of course, the Occupied Territories is a totally different story. You don’t need propaganda to convince generations of people who’ve been under occupation and virtually no prospects for the future to resist the occupation. It’s been going on for so long, that one could safely talk about hard-wiring.

Al-Jazeera didn’t cause 9/11 or any of the subsequent horrors. It might have exacerbated the sentiment of an Arab people abandoned by the international community and ruled by pro-American leaders. But let’s face it, the propaganda on the other side isn’t any less harmful.

[quote]The Mage wrote:
Now having read further into your arguments, was this directed at me?

It seemed however, that he was making an assumption based not on copious research collected by another, but on a single internet article.

If so, where did you get this idea? What specifically did I say that pointed to a single internet article? If so then you need to explain why you argue against making assumptions while making them.

I do disagree with Adamsson with the idea that Islam is a problem, but state instead that it is �??extreme�?? Islam that is the problem.

I personally wouldn’t say that a majority of Muslims are exposed to this brainwashing, but enough of them are, and it starts at early childhood.[/quote]

Good clarification.

Yes, it was half pointed at you. And I take it back now that you’ve explained yourself.

I wasn’t really arguing against you, just arguing against your argument, if that makes any sense.