on a cycle of tren and test e and noticed a small amount of hair loss, thinking about starting to add proscar and arimidex during my cycle. what do you guys think…?
[quote]michael675 wrote:
on a cycle of tren and test e and noticed a small amount of hair loss, thinking about starting to add proscar and arimidex during my cycle. what do you guys think…? [/quote]
You may have to choose which is more important. Hair or lifting with gear.
man that is fucked up. there has to be a way to prevent hair loss. I know people who have been juicin for ever and they have lots of hair. look at Arnold for example lol
genetics play a role as well if it runs in your family some steroids will aggravate mpb
From what I understand steroids dont make you go bald unless you were destined for eventual baldness already. They merely speed up the process, hence the old juiceheads with full heads of hair you speak of.
yeah that’s what I hear. my dad isn’t bald but I don’t know. risky business and I do not wanna stop juicin I’m just getting started
you wither have the 5AR expression in your scalp or you don’t.
Personally I have terrible hair so couldn’t give a shit about it falling out
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
you wither have the 5AR expression in your scalp or you don’t.
Personally I have terrible hair so couldn’t give a shit about it falling out[/quote]
Haha, that’s why I shave my head
how do I find out if I have 5ar expression in my scalp before balding?
Yea that is one area that really worries me. I am not my first cycle of some PH in pill form. I am very worried about hair loss. I am 27 years old and I have started to recede on my hair line.
My dad has lost his hair but my grandpa on my Dad’s side died at 75 with a full head of hair, and my dad on my moms side died with a full head of hair.
I am really hoping this shit doesnt make me go bald!
If anything I would just get some hair replacement surgery.
[quote]michael675 wrote:
how do I find out if I have 5ar expression in my scalp before balding?[/quote]
Your maternal grandfather
like my dads dad? lol
lol, no Michael, your mum’s dad.
[quote]iammikewatts wrote:
From what I understand steroids dont make you go bald unless you were destined for eventual baldness already. They merely speed up the process, hence the old juiceheads with full heads of hair you speak of.[/quote]
Your 100% percent right.Im 53 and have juiced on and off for 20 year’s.I have an afro type hair due!!!
[quote]rds63799 wrote:
lol, no Michael, your mum’s dad.[/quote]
The major allele for MPB is inherited on the X-chromosome. Males inherit their X-chromosome from their mothers. Since women have 2 X-chrs, looking at your maternal grandfather only gives half the picture, since your mother inherited one of two possible X-chrs from her mother. Your best bet here is probably to look at your mother’s brother(s) as well, since they would also inherit their X-chrs from the same place.
Of course, life can never be this simple, so there’s also other autosomal (non sex chromosome related) alleles that influence developing MPB, in addition to environmentally influenced factors. So guard that hair with your life (if you happen to give a shit lol), especially if there are lots of baldies in your family.
wow thats exciting my moms side alll have great hair! how do i guard my hair though lol? cuz i give lotsssss of shits i cannot go bald
Run 1mg finasteride per day (either proscar or proprecia its all the same ingredient) this wont necessarily stop you going bald but it should give you more of a fighting chance. Also u dont wanna really be running certain compounds like teen abombs dbol and master on if u really care about your hair. Stick to milder compounds or at least ones that arent a dht derivative. Best of luck
[quote]jimbopv123 wrote:
Run 1mg finasteride per day (either proscar or proprecia its all the same ingredient) this wont necessarily stop you going bald but it should give you more of a fighting chance. Also u dont wanna really be running certain compounds like teen abombs dbol and master on if u really care about your hair. Stick to milder compounds or at least ones that arent a dht derivative. Best of luck[/quote]
I’ve read good and bad on finasteride, mostly bad. I haven’t used it so don’t let my info spoil your day. I understand if you quit using it, the hair will revert back to what it was before starting finasteride.
Sexual side effects
There are case reports of persistent diminished libido or erectile dysfunction, even after stopping the drug.[20] In December 2008, the Swedish Medical Products agency concluded a safety investigation of finasteride and advised that finasteride may cause irreversible sexual dysfunction. The Agency’s updated safety information lists difficulty in obtaining an erection that persists indefinitely, even after the discontinuation of finasteride, as a possible side effect of the drug.[21] The UK’s Medical and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) cites reports of erectile dysfunction that persists once use of finasteride has stopped.[22] Similar labeling changes have been made by the Italian government. For a period of time there was a discrepancy between European and North American warning labels regarding the risks of developing persistent sexual side effects from taking Propecia but after two years in April 2011 Merck revised the United States’ warning in consumer and medical leaflets to include erectile dysfunction that may persist after stopping finasteride.[23] In April 2012, the FDA chose to approve Merck’s proposed labeling from 2011 only after the warning label was further strengthened to include reports of persistent libido disorders, ejaculation disorders, orgasm disorders, and decreased libido. [24][25][26]
Anxiety and depression
Finasteride has been found to robustly induce depressive and anxious behaviors in animals.[27] Accordingly, its clinical use has been associated with depression and anxiety in both men and women in at least several reports in the medical literature.[28] In one study, at a dose of 1 mg per day, finasteride induced moderate to severe depression in 19 of 23 or 83% of participants, notably including all of the female patients.[11] In addition, marked anxiety occurred comorbidly with the depressive symptoms in some cases. Another study with a larger sample size of 128 men, though no women, also at a dose of 1 mg per day, found that finasteride increased both BDI and HADS depression scores significantly.[29] It also increased HADS anxiety scores, though this was not found to be statistically significant. The authors concluded that finasteride should be prescribed cautiously to patients at a high risk of depression.
In late 2010, Merck revised the label of its Propecia formulation of finasteride in the United States and Canada to add depression to the list of possible side effects.[30]
In August 2012, a study of 61 former users of finasteride with persistent sexual side effects found that 75% of them showed significantly higher rates of depressive symptoms relative to a control group. Of the treated men, 36% had severe symptoms, 28% had moderate symptoms, and 11% had mild symptoms. In addition, 44% of these men reported suicidal ideation. In the control group of 29 men, 10% showed depressive symptoms, with all of these cases being mild, and 3% reported thoughts of suicide. It was concluded that finasteride may cause symptoms of depression and suicidal ideation in some persons which can persist even after discontinuation of treatment.[31][32]
Male breast cancer
In December 2009, the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency in the UK announced new drug safety advice on finasteride and the potential risk of male breast cancer. The agency concluded that, although overall incidence of male breast cancer in clinical trials for finasteride 5 mg was not significantly increased, a higher risk of male breast cancer with finasteride use cannot be excluded. A warning on this risk will be included in the product information.[33] Merck revised the United States’ warning in consumer and medical leaflets to include the risk of male breast cancer.[23]
Teratogenicity
Finasteride is in the FDA pregnancy category X. This means that it is known to cause birth defects in a fetus. Women who are or who may become pregnant must not handle crushed or broken finasteride tablets, because the medication could be absorbed through the skin. Finasteride is known to cause birth defects in a developing male baby. Exposure to whole tablets should be avoided whenever possible, however exposure to whole tablets is not expected to be harmful as long as the tablets are not swallowed. It is not known whether finasteride passes into breast milk, and thus should not be taken by breastfeeding women. Finasteride may pass into the semen of men, but Merck states that a pregnant woman’s contact with the semen of a man taking finasteride is not an issue for concern. Finasteride is known to affect blood donations, and potential donors are typically restricted for at least a month after their most recent dose.[34]
Interference with doping assays
Many sports organizations have banned finasteride because it can be used to mask steroid abuse.[35] Since 2005, finasteride has been on the World Anti-Doping Agency’s list of banned substances. However, it was removed from the list in 2009.[36] Notable athletes who used finasteride for hair loss and were banned from international competition include skeleton racer Zach Lund, bobsledder Sebastien Gattuso, footballer RomÃ???Ã??Ã?¡rio and ice hockey goaltender JosÃ???Ã??Ã?© ThÃ???Ã??Ã?©odore.[37]
Mechanism of action
Testosterone in males is produced primarily in the testicles, but also in the adrenal glands. The majority of testosterone in the body is bound to sex hormone-binding globulin (SHBG), a protein produced in the liver that transports testosterone through the bloodstream, prevents its metabolism, and prolongs its half-life. Once it becomes unbound from SHBG, free testosterone can enter cells throughout the body. In certain tissues, notably the scalp, skin, and prostate, testosterone is converted into 5-dihydrotestosterone (DHT) by the enzyme 5-reductase. DHT is a more powerful androgen than testosterone (as it has approximately 3-10x the potency at the androgen receptor, the site of action of the androgen hormones), so 5-reductase can be thought to amplify the androgenic effect of testosterone in the tissues in which it’s found.
Finasteride, a 4-azasteroid and analogue of testosterone, works by acting as a potent and specific, competitive inhibitor of one of the two subtypes of 5�??�?�±-reductase, specifically the type II isoenzyme.[38] In other words, it binds to the enzyme and prevents endogenous substrates such as testosterone from being metabolized. 5�??�?�±-reductase type I and type II are responsible for approximately one-third and two-thirds of systemic DHT production, respectively.[39]
Other 5a-reductase substrates include progesterone, androstenedione, epi-testosterone, cortisol, aldosterone, and deoxycorticosterone. The entire physiologic effect of their reduction is unknown, but likely related to their excretion or is itself physiologic. Beyond being a catalyst in the rate-limiting step in testosterone reduction, 5alpha-reductase enzyme isoforms I and II reduce progesterone to dihydroprogesterone (DHP) and deoxycorticosterone to dihydrodeoxycorticosterone (DHDOC). In vitro and animal models suggest subsequent 3alpha-reduction of DHT, DHP and DHDOC lead to steroid metabolites with effect on cerebral function by enhancing gamma-aminobutyric acid GABAergic inhibition. These neuroactive steroid derivatives enhance GABA at GABA(A) receptors and have anticonvulsant, antidepressant and anxiolytic effects, and also alter sexual and alcohol related behavior.[40] 5-dihydrocortisol is present in the aqueous humor of the eye, is synthesized in the lens, and might help make the aqueous humor itself.[41] Allopregnanolone and THDOC are neurosteroids, with the latter having effects on the susceptibility of animals to seizures. 5-dihydroaldosterone is a potent antidiuretic agent, although different from aldosterone. Its formation in the kidney is enhanced by restriction of dietary salt, suggesting it may help retain sodium as follows:[42]
Substrate + NADPH + H+ 5-substrate + NADP+
5-DHP is a major hormone in circulation of normal cycling and pregnant women.[43]
By inhibiting 5a-reductase, finasteride prevents conversion of testosterone to DHT by the type II isoenzyme, resulting in a decrease in serum DHT levels by about 65�?�¢??70% and in prostate DHT levels by up to 85�?�¢??90%,[44] where expression of the type II isoenzyme dominates. Unlike dual inhibitors of both isoenzymes of 5�??�?�±-reductase which can reduce DHT levels in the entire body by more than 99%, finasteride does not completely suppress DHT production because it lacks significant inhibitory effects on the 5�??�?�±-reductase type I isoenzyme, with 100-fold less affinity for I as compared to II.[39] In addition to blocking the type II isoenzyme, finasteride competitively inhibits the 5�??�?�²-reductase type II isoenzyme,[45] though this is not believed to affect androgen metabolism.
By blocking DHT production, finasteride reduces androgen activity in the scalp. In the prostate, inhibition of 5-reductase reduces prostate volume, which improves benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) and reduces risk of prostate cancer. 5-reductase inhibition also reduces epididymal weight, and decreases motility and normal morphology of spermatozoa in the epididymis.[46]
Cause of mood-related and sexual side effects
DHT, and neuroactive steroids (NAs) such as allopregnanolone (ALLO) and tetrahydrodeoxycorticosterone (THDOC)potent positive allosteric modulators of the GABAA receptor (the same site of action of euphoriant and anxiolytic drugs like benzodiazepines and alcohol)are important endogenous neuroregulators that have been shown to possess powerful antidepressant and anxiolytic effects as well as to play a positive role in sexual function.[28][27][47] Their biosynthesis is dependent on both isoforms of 5-reductase, and accordingly, finasteride has been shown to reduce their formation in the body.[48][49][50] As such, this effect of finasteride is a likely cause of the emotional and sexual side effects associated with the drug.[27][28] Additionally, due to the fact that the NAs and not just DHT are involved, the fact that the mood and anxiety-related side effects occur not only in men but in women as well[29] can also potentially be explained.
Vehicle
Drug trade names include Propecia and Proscar, the former marketed for male pattern baldness (MPB) and the latter for benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH), both are products of Merck & Co. There is 1 mg of finasteride in Propecia and 5 mg in Proscar. Merck’s patent on finasteride for the treatment of BPH expired on June 19, 2006.[51] Merck was awarded a separate patent for the use of finasteride to treat MPB. This patent is set to expire in November 2013.[52]
Some studies have shown that the dose of finasteride needed to treat male pattern baldness may be smaller than 1 mg.[53] Petitions to the FDA to re-examine the approved dosage in light of the statistical evidence and possible long-term risks,[54] were met with the response that a study had shown increased effect of a 1 mg dose compared to 0.2 mg without added risks; the same study also concluded that doses of 0.01 mg per day were found to be ineffective in treating hair loss.[54]
Finasteride is lipophilic,[55] and development of a liposomal system of finasteride for topical application has been a subject of recent study.[56] Topical formulations show some effect in reversal of androgenic effects on hair follicles,[57] as well as in hirsutism.[58] More recent studies have looked at microemulsions[55] and liquid crystalline nanoparticles for topical finasteride delivery. In the latter, addition of glycerol, propylene glycol, and polyethylene glycol 400, increased finasteride permeation, while addition of oleic acid made it decrease.[59] Topical finasteride in combination with topical minoxidil is more effective than topical minoxidil alone.[60] Small studies of topical finasteride formulations in combination with other drugs have also been found effective.[61] Surfactants have been shown to aid topical absorption.[62] Topical finasteride gel has been shown an effective route of administration.[63]
Chemical synthesis
Propecia (finasteride) 1 mg tablets
Propecia 1 mg & Finpecia 1 mg tablets
Finasteride is synthesized from progesterone:
so no tren and sus huh?
why not just stay on it year round? if u wanna keep your hair i mean thats the way to go