T Nation

Gyno Start on Day 6?


#1

So i did lots of research and decided on a test sust only cycle.
I’m doing 125mg test sust EOD (i read test sust is most efficient EOD) and about 7mg of a liquid Aromasin ED.
I read conflicting reports of the half life of Aromasin. I think it’s a common misconception that it is 27 hours (true in woman). Im under the impression that it is 8.9 hours in men and i think it will keep a more stable AI level in my system doing it ED.
Anyway I pinned the first time this past Tuesday. It is now monday and i started to notice a mild burning sensation on my nipples. It feels like a minor sunburn on them. I have absolutely avoided touching them so i didn’t irritate them myself and make it impossible to judge for sure.
I also am noticeably bloated in my hands. Yesterday i could easily twist a ring off while today i have to wrestle it off.
I immediately took an extra 7mg of aromasin and i think the symptoms in my nipples are slightly better at best but really probably the same.
Should I abort cycle?
Up the Aromasin to 25mg ED (14mg EOD is what i was aiming for…starting low)?
Start nolva? (i have nolva and clomid on hand)
Am i paranoid and this cant happen this early, coincidental bad timing?
Keep doing what im doing and give it more time and see if symptoms subside?
Something else?
Any help or shared similar experiences would be appreciated.
Stats
5’11" 205lbs. 30yo. 17-20%


#2

Im my humble opinion, you are starting off pretty strong for a first cycle. I would stick to the classic 300-500mg Test-e once a week as it’s a lot simpler to manage. 12mg eod aromasin works for most of similar cycles and seems to be the classic route to start then you adjust depending on your bloodwork and reactions. 25mg Aromasin a day goes waaay beyond my confort zone. But we all react differently I guess.


#3

Thanks for getting back. Test e wasnt available to me. I did a lot of reading and didnt see anything implying different esters were better or worse for beginners. Is that what you’re saying or is ir my dose timing that is a little strong for a first cycle? I thought i was going light. I even had other gear bought and paid for that i decided to put on the back burner.
The 125mg EOD of test sust equates to 500mg a week and the about 7mg of Aromasin ED is about the same as the classic 12.5mg EOD…i just believe based on my studies that ED will provide more stable est levels.
Ive seen some posts saying things like “i like when i get nipple sensitivity because i know my gear is real” or “a little sensitivity is a good thing”.
I think those types of things are odd because those symptoms are indicative of higher than normal estradiol levels and first signs of developing gyno, correct?


#4

I actually misread, I originally thought you were injecting 125mg ED, my bad. The advantage with test-e is less frequent injections as compared to sust. Im my opinion it’s easier to manage but if sust works for you, that’s fine too.
I know that 25mg aromasin is very very high for the cycle you are on, if it comes to that, there may be some underlying issue.
I’d rather let somebody a bit more experience answer further though as i’m probably mostly going to make assumptions at this point. Good luck thought, hope you can figure this out quickly.


#5

Thanks for clarifying.
Yes , ive heard 25mg ED Aromasin is very high for this cycle and many would say it’s high in general.
Yesterday ended up being a 14mg day and I’ll continue that for 2 more days to see if symptoms subside. Then i might try uping it to 25mgED and if that doesn’t work I’ll add in nolva and look into aborting unless i hear otherwise.
I woke up this morning with my nips burning around rhe same mild intensity as yesterday


#6

Why are you giving advice? You’re in the middle of your first cycle. You’re not in a position to be giving advice yet, because all you can do is parrot things you’ve read on boards or heard from other people. You have no experience to share. Your assurance that a 300-500 dose is easier to manage is particularly funny, because that’s what you’re running, and your estrogen is about triple normal range from what I remember reading, and you’re experiencing severe mental side effects. I don’t mean any of this to be rude, or anything like that, rather I would just suggest that you reconsider spouting advice at this point in your steroid journey. Maybe get a little more time/experience under your belt before you try to help others. There are plenty of experienced users on this board who can give advice in your absence, trust me.


#7

I hope your right about some experienced users giving advice, flipcollar.
I’m feeling very bloated today and have put on about 7lbs in 2 days plus my hands feel tight. Nipple sensitivity increased throughout the day but a little ‘off and on’ as well.
Well, i did some reading and i think the extra aromasin isn’t going to help me in the short term. My take is that the 7mgED wasnt enough to stop significant conversion to estrogen and therefore i ended up with high estro and the symptoms. Uping the AI is a good idea because it will stop it from happening again once this extra estro works it’s way out of my system.
I took 40mg of nolvadex. I think the serm will help negate the effects of the estro currently in my system. I’ll taper off of it when symptoms subside and continue on a higher dose of aromasin (14mgED) and adjust accordingly.
Can anyone comment on whether or not they believe my plan is based in correct logic/information?


#8

We know at the TRT forum that guys need anastrozole 1mg per 100mg T ester and that is expected as a competitive drug. Does the binding aromasin need to be proportionate too? Yes, as the doses are quite small and we are trying to modulate T–>E2, not kill it.

FT–>E2 aromatization rates are proportional to FT levels, so some T dose proportionality is expected.

I can’t provide much guidance for Aromasin in the context of cycling gear. But you definitely need more AI. Given the half-life, it may take 5-6 days of a constant dose to reach final serum levels. Suggest front loading 3x, 2x 1x dose over first three days.

Always best to manage E2 than trying to hide with a SERM.


#9

Thanks for the input, KSman.
I have been taking the AI since day 1 at 7mg/day. Yesterday i upped it to 14mg and today 14mg as well. My current plan is to use the nolva until symptoms subside and continue on 14mgED unless symptoms return, in which case ill probably go as high as 25mgED.
Are you suggesting that i go 3x, 2x, 1x my current dose of 14mg over the next three days or that i should have started that out before my first pin or was it just not clear that i had been on an AI from the start?
Its day 8 now so i should be ‘loaded’…perhaps not with a high enough dose, however.


#10

maybe read my last reply :wink:


#11

I love reading your posts man, my brain gets high going for a ride through a cool testosterone-related medical explanation.


#12

Ok, i took the nolva yesterday (40mg) and upped the Aromasin to 14mg ED for the last three days(including today). My symptoms seemed to slowly dissipate throught the day to almost nothing. I was even peeing away the water retention like crazy.
I decided to continue the nolva but only take 20mg today and stop completely tomorrow if no more symptoms at all.
I’m concerned that maybe i jumped the gun with the nolva and increased AI. I definitely had symptoms but I wonder if i was experiencing high estrogen which was converted before the AI built up in my blood and it happened to work its way through very briefly and coincidentally the day after i took nolva. It just seems like everything worked too well and too quickly, not that im complaining. I just wonder how the hell i got rid of symptoms relatively instantly. Any ideas?
Oh, I’m also not noticing any extra strength, energy, endurance, or motivation yet on day 9. I was told sust can be felt within a couple days