T Nation

Gyno Recommendation

This is the best forum I could think of to post this question in:

I’ve been an off-and-on lifter for about 6 years. I took about a 2-year lay-off due to health problems. (…which, I can elaborate on, if someone thinks it is relevant.)

I’ve been back into the gym for almost exactly 3 months now. About 2 months ago, I started to develop a small amount of gyno; the “button-shaped” thingy under the nipple. ONLY in the right nipple. Revenge from TRT I think… more on that soon.

Thing is, I’m not on any steroids; not even a simple test cycle or anything like that.

So, here is why I post this issue here; you guys know AI’s and SERM’s better than any Dr. I could talk to around my neck of the woods.

In my state, I can order blood panels without a Dr. recommendation, so I’m going to check my Prolactin, Estradiol, and total Testosterone. I’ll reply back here with those results once they come in.

I’ve waited about 2 months for this thing to disappear. I was once on TRT for about 8 months, like 4 YEARS ago; developed a small amount of gyno in the OTHER nipple (…last time, it was my left; this time, it’s on the right.) and I took clomid (standard dosage) for about 3 months and it went away completely. I was taking less than 100mg per MONTH of test cypionate at the time. Clearly, my balls were still healthy. Also, since I’ve gained (…many won’t believe this, but that’s OK…) 15 lb and LOST 2" off my waist since hitting the gym again, things are probably “OK” down there.

Right now, I am taking two medications, neither of which are known to cause gyno, or effect testosterone levels:

  1. Clonidine (blood pressure medication I take off-label for insomnia. Non-addictive, and has fixed my sleep problems.)

  2. Buprenorphine (…pain medication. Any study on this opiate has suggested there is no repression of testosterone, even at very high levels.)

That’s about all I can think of to type about here, now. Lemme know what other information you guys might need, and I’ll provide it. I know this is for SURE a bit pre-mature, as I haven’t gotten the blood-work back yet, but I had spoken to two people who said - more or less - that no matter what my blood-panel says, the best medication for gyno these days is Anastrozole.

That’s why I made this thread now.

Is that the case?

Is it true that I should get some Anastrozole for the gyno, regardless of prolactin levels?

Thanks for your help, guys. I’ve been on this site for over 5 years now, lurking in the shadows, reading your posts, (…many originating and/or antiquated from Infuriated George’s sticky) and I finally find myself in a place where I must post SOMEWHERE to get some advice.

I cannot (likely) get advice about this from my general practitioner. Here’s why:

#1. I (…and the other people reading this post) know more about male hormones than nearly all GP’s. AND, I would need a recommendation FROM my GP to see a hormone specialist… but I think the community on T-Nation in this forum are better equipped than most hormone specialists… at least in THIS scenario. So, seeing a GP (…which I already did, BTW, just to get a recommendation to someone who MAY be able to help me) is probably not the best course of action.

What do you guys think?

#2 I’m not an idiot. I make TONS of mistakes, ALL DAY EVERY DAY, but I’m not a retard. However, I’ve met my fair share of stupid doctors as you all have… but the vet posts I’ve seen in these forums show me you guys got at least PART of the answer to what I need… if not the whole damned enchilada.

Over and out.

Extra info:

I’ll post pics if need be. It’s asymmetrical gynecomastia. No “button” on the left pectoral; a “puffy” nipple on the right.

I know I’m running out of time with this.

I’m almost 30, & this has been around for almost 3 months. Past the 6-month mark, I’m looking at a vocation requiring whet nursing…

…so I post here, because I gotta worry about PURCHASING the pharms, waiting for shipping, etc. I don’t want a fucking puffy right nip for the rest of my life… FOR NO DAMN GOOD REASON, RIGHT?

All the best, folks,

Quads

PS: I have another username, but I need to keep this on the down-low. (…other username is my LEGAL name.)

We are shooting into the dark without blood tests, so that is why I would recommend if you can’t get them from your doctor, you go to www.privatemdlabs.com and buy their Female Hormone Panel (it is $50 and does not matter that you are not a female). take it to Labcorp and get it drawn and they give you results electronically. It tests for Total T, E2, Lh, FSH, and some blood/kidney/liver markers.

I would suspect your T has probably crashed for wahtever reason, and your E2 has not downadjusted accordingly leading to your potential gyno (if it exists…not saying it does or doesnt). But blood tests will show you if this might be the case.

It is also possible one of your medications occupies the same enzymatic pathways for liver clearance as aromatase, which results in higher aromatase in your body and thus higher E2. Again this is just speculation without blood tests.

Once you have the tests, post them and we can take a look at them and discuss potentail solutions to discuss with your doctor.

How do you feel otherwise?

Balla,
As usual good info. Never heard or even thought about a female panel test. LabCorp get me for $250 every time I go there. I usually use the VA but many times I don’t want them to know what/how much gear I’m running. Thanks for throwing that out there

[quote]tattoo’d’popeye wrote:
Balla,
As usual good info. Never heard or even thought about a female panel test. LabCorp get me for $250 every time I go there. I usually use the VA but many times I don’t want them to know what/how much gear I’m running. Thanks for throwing that out there[/quote]

Yeah man it is a very good resource. The problem though is that Labcorp’s Total T range only goes up to 1500, so if you are trying to determine HOW potent your gear is, its not real useful for that. Just tells you that it is more than about 250-300 mg/week and not bath water lol

But yeah for monitoring E2 and blood markers (RBC) and liver function, I can see it being a very useful tool for somebody on a cycle.

If it turns out the gyno is estrogen related, consider getting some DHT Cream (you can find the andractrim brand online) and applying it topically to the nipple. It’s expensive, but there’s research behind it for this purpose specifically and anecdotally many guys claim it has worked far better than SERMs.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
We are shooting into the dark without blood tests, so that is why I would recommend if you can’t get them from your doctor, you go to www.privatemdlabs.com and buy their Female Hormone Panel (it is $50 and does not matter that you are not a female). take it to Labcorp and get it drawn and they give you results electronically. It tests for Total T, E2, Lh, FSH, and some blood/kidney/liver markers.

I would suspect your T has probably crashed for wahtever reason, and your E2 has not downadjusted accordingly leading to your potential gyno (if it exists…not saying it does or doesnt). But blood tests will show you if this might be the case.

It is also possible one of your medications occupies the same enzymatic pathways for liver clearance as aromatase, which results in higher aromatase in your body and thus higher E2. Again this is just speculation without blood tests.

Once you have the tests, post them and we can take a look at them and discuss potentail solutions to discuss with your doctor.

How do you feel otherwise?[/quote]

Thanks for the advice.

Generally speaking, I feel better since I’ve started lifting, but I don’t feel like I have anywhere near as much energy as when I was on TRT years back.

I was told that gyno usually is present with elevated levels of prolactin. A $50 blood panel is better than what I was looking at; I was planning on spending (ideally) no more than $200 total. I think I should throw prolactin on top of that particular panel. I’ll look more into it.

Thanks for the recommendation. I need to answer the other posts, then get ready for the gym tonight. I recently caught something called the moro virus or something like that, so I’ve been a bit under the weather for the past 4 days or so.

Hopefully, I’ll be able to get the bloodwork done by the end of this week.

EDIT: I looked into the Female Hormone Blood panel; I’m going to order that, with a prolactin test on top of it.

Does anyone know how much it will cost to get the blood drawn?

[quote]dekd wrote:
If it turns out the gyno is estrogen related, consider getting some DHT Cream (you can find the andractrim brand online) and applying it topically to the nipple. It’s expensive, but there’s research behind it for this purpose specifically and anecdotally many guys claim it has worked far better than SERMs.[/quote]

Thanks for that info, Dekd.

What if it turns out the gyno is related to prolactin or estradiol?

[quote]quadraceps wrote:

Does anyone know how much it will cost to get the blood drawn?[/quote]
I’d be interested to find this out as well. I haven’t been able to get in touch with anyone over the phone. I think most people walk-in at labcorp but a coworker told me they will take appointments (if you can ever get through to someone). I regret not taking advantage of this resource before my current cycle. I’d like to make this a regular thing; check the legitimacy of my gear, make sure I’m recovering well, etc. Very interested.

[quote]incredulous wrote:

[quote]quadraceps wrote:

Does anyone know how much it will cost to get the blood drawn?[/quote]
I’d be interested to find this out as well. I haven’t been able to get in touch with anyone over the phone. I think most people walk-in at labcorp but a coworker told me they will take appointments (if you can ever get through to someone). I regret not taking advantage of this resource before my current cycle. I’d like to make this a regular thing; check the legitimacy of my gear, make sure I’m recovering well, etc. Very interested.[/quote]

Ummm its $0 once you buy the package.

Did I misunderstand the question?

You don’t get charged for the package then pay at the lab an additional cost, if that’s what youi’re asking. You pay privatemdlabs, they send you an order form, and you take it to the lab to get it drawn. The only cost you pay is what you pay to mdlabs.

Also, look around on the internet for a code. They usually have 10-20% off deals. I know that lifeextension.org used to have them.

Finally, you can make the labcorp appointment on the interwebz.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]incredulous wrote:

[quote]quadraceps wrote:

Does anyone know how much it will cost to get the blood drawn?[/quote]
I’d be interested to find this out as well. I haven’t been able to get in touch with anyone over the phone. I think most people walk-in at labcorp but a coworker told me they will take appointments (if you can ever get through to someone). I regret not taking advantage of this resource before my current cycle. I’d like to make this a regular thing; check the legitimacy of my gear, make sure I’m recovering well, etc. Very interested.[/quote]

Ummm its $0 once you buy the package.

Did I misunderstand the question?

You don’t get charged for the package then pay at the lab an additional cost, if that’s what youi’re asking. You pay privatemdlabs, they send you an order form, and you take it to the lab to get it drawn. The only cost you pay is what you pay to mdlabs.

Also, look around on the internet for a code. They usually have 10-20% off deals. I know that lifeextension.org used to have them.

Finally, you can make the labcorp appointment on the interwebz. [/quote]

Nah, you didn’t mis-understand the question. Thanks for the answer. I’ll look around to see if they’re somehow offering an Online discount of some kind.

Anyway, here is why I was curious about cost of drawing the blood:

I worked at a diagnostics lab for a period of time. I’ve looked over a rather large amount of samples of various kinds, but I was not ever at any of the facilities where blood was drawn. Also, previously, any time I DID have blood drawn it was after a request from my GP.

We had couriers who would go around and pick up specimens from all sorts of different labs, so that was my query; I assumed that the lab I’d go to would charge me to draw the blood. The paperwork I saw at MY former diagnostics lab charged for the blood-work to be drawn, then we ALSO charged for the diagnostics. Or, there was already a charge from one of the labs for their efforts in drawing the blood, and we’d add on whatever charges necessary to perform the assay.

Mind you, this was at least 3 years ago, so things may have changed since then.

Also, I just noticed that ALL of the places I can go to for privatemdlabs.com are LABCORP labs. So privatemd is most likely a subsidiary of LABCORP, and so I’m not going to a separate lab to get the blood drawn.

[quote]incredulous wrote:

[quote]quadraceps wrote:

Does anyone know how much it will cost to get the blood drawn?[/quote]
I’d be interested to find this out as well. I haven’t been able to get in touch with anyone over the phone. I think most people walk-in at labcorp but a coworker told me they will take appointments (if you can ever get through to someone). I regret not taking advantage of this resource before my current cycle. I’d like to make this a regular thing; check the legitimacy of my gear, make sure I’m recovering well, etc. Very interested.[/quote]

Yes, you should most definitely get bloodwork done regularly. I would have been getting it done at LEAST every 6 months had I known I could do it on my own, for a mere $100 TOPS, for everything I’m interested in.

Even though you’ve started your cycle, that’s not so bad; go in and get bloodwork done to make sure that it’s legit gear, then get more work done after PCT.

Also, If you haven’t done this yet; look into using HCG with your cycle. I’ve read about many people being able to maintain normal testicular function throughout a 12-16 week cycle, meaning there’s no risk of crashing down and needing to have your own testosterone production come back up.

Also, considering how cheap one can get testosterone, AI’s and SERMs for Online, there’s really no reason to avoid “expensive” bloodwork when it’s no longer expensive, and neither is the gear.

Seriously, any valid source I’ve found Online for gear (…which I’m not listing here, for obvious reasons) is half the cost of what it would be if I bought it legitimately. I should have bought my hormones Online, even when I HAD an Rx.

Last vial of test cypionate I bought was about $120 or so; I think like $117 plus tax, for 20cc @ 250mg/cc. I’ve found at least two reputable Online sources that charge a mere $50-$60 for 20cc vials, one includes free shipping. One place even oversaturates the solution to 275mg/cc.

I don’t think I’d be willing to make my own solutions, but that’s now becoming an easy alternative for people on TRT to save HUGE money, and it wouldn’t even be illegal.

I plan on getting a script for testosterone if my levels are low, but I won’t be buying from my local pharmacy.

Do consider I’m no doctor, and I’m also not suggesting anyone buy anything Online unless they trust the source as much as they do their local pharmacy. Well, in my case, I’d actually trust my sources MORE than my local pharmacy, lol. Just, be safe folks.

I do believe my suggestion for everyone to get bloodwork done at least once every 6 months is a good one, however.

privatemdlabs isn’t a subsidiary. I assume they have just worked out a bulk deal discount where they are the middle men and promoters, and in exchange labcorp gets more business.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]incredulous wrote:

[quote]quadraceps wrote:

Does anyone know how much it will cost to get the blood drawn?[/quote]
I’d be interested to find this out as well. I haven’t been able to get in touch with anyone over the phone. I think most people walk-in at labcorp but a coworker told me they will take appointments (if you can ever get through to someone). I regret not taking advantage of this resource before my current cycle. I’d like to make this a regular thing; check the legitimacy of my gear, make sure I’m recovering well, etc. Very interested.[/quote]

Ummm its $0 once you buy the package.

Did I misunderstand the question?

You don’t get charged for the package then pay at the lab an additional cost, if that’s what youi’re asking. You pay privatemdlabs, they send you an order form, and you take it to the lab to get it drawn. The only cost you pay is what you pay to mdlabs.

Also, look around on the internet for a code. They usually have 10-20% off deals. I know that lifeextension.org used to have them.

Finally, you can make the labcorp appointment on the interwebz. [/quote]
Nice, that’s very good news My assumption was that the online groups charge for evaluating the sample, and labcorp would charge for the draw.

@ incredulous; your assumption is a valid one. That was exactly what happened int the diagnostics lab that I worked for, which is why I assumed (…well, still do) that Private MD Labs is a subsidiary of LABCORP.

@ VTBalla34; how do you know they are not a subsidiary of LABCORP?

I found a Private MD Labs, LLC, incorporated in Tennessee, but there was no Website listed for that company. It was listed as a sole TN private lab with only one location:

http://www.manta.com/c/mt17hzj/private-md-labs-llc

…not a nationwide Online service. My speculation could be wrong, though, and that’s fine.

Testing-wise, I’d hope that it IS a subsidiary of LABCORP, because that simplifies things later:

Oftentimes when running one test, you’ll come up with more information than was requested. I remember one case where a tech I worked with was testing a pap smear. The test requested was simply in regards to whether or not the cervical cells presented ASCUS, but in running the test, it was also unavoidable to be ALSO testing for cervical cancer cells. And, CANCEROUS CELLS WERE FOUND. However, because there was no request for testing of cancer cells, the lab did not include that information, and simply sent the doctor the positive results for ASCUS.

It’s almost definitely the case that the gynocologist would order a cancer test after hearing of the ASCUS-positive results, but the lab intentionally hid that information to make more money. That required “another” test to be ordered. There’s a good chance a subsidiary of a company would do the same thing, but it’ll be easier to get things re-tested if need be if the sample isn’t couriered back and forth between two companies like it was in the private lab I worked for.

Just something to think about; diagnostic labs aren’t trustworthy, private or not, but one large company is easier to deal with than two.

Anyway, I’m getting the blood drawn at the beginning of next week.

…and for those who are curious; there isn’t an appointment needed to go get the blood drawn unless it’s something specific to fasting and/or fluid intake.

Also, after purchasing the test, you have 90 days to go get the blood drawn. The test order will remain valid for one year, but after 90 days there’s a good chance that you’ll need to replace the order due to Private MD Labs clearing out their data off their servers every 90 days.

Thanks for the info guys. I’ll hopefully have the test results by the end of next week at the latest, although usually diagnostics take about 24-48 hours in most cases.

I ordered the female hormone panel, with prolactin on the side, lol.

Two things:

  1. I’m intentionally consuming alcohol the night before the blood panel so that I get a good idea of the lowest of the low that my test levels can be at. (…last time I got my test levels checked, I was sober as a judge, and I was STILL below even the LOWEST normal level.)

  2. I got a 12% discount after typing in a code I found on google, Hooray!

I’m getting blood drawn later today. Expect the results of the test once I get them… which should be in about 2 days tops.

PS: I pretty much shot my testosterone levels into the grave since I was a teenager; smoked weed all day every day (…yes, weed lowers T levels) then I had pain problems and took meds that made it even worse, and now I’ve learned some people never recover.

So, I’m gonna try to find the smallest dose of test cyp I can take to just be on the high-side of normal T levels, and that’s it. I may try a cycle years from now. At the moment I just wanna have a natural sex drive, enjoy lifting at the gym, flirt with hot girls, etc.

Hope this helps y’all,

Quadraceps


Here are the results of my blood panel. There were two pages. I tried to attach both of them. Let me know if you’re having problems looking at them.

2 things:

#1 My Testosterone levels are WAY low. So, I’m going to go on TRT no doubt.

#2 My prolactin levels ARE high, so it was a good thing that I got that checked out. Not super high, but high enough to explain the gyno I’ve recently acquired.

So, what would you guys recommend I take for gyno caused by high prolactin? My physician suggested dopamine agonists, such as L-Dopa or Wellbutrin of all things.

Are there AI’s or SERM’s that will lower my prolactin levels/get rid of the gyno?

Thanks again y’all,

Quads

Could try some caber or prami for the prolactin issues

What is caber or prami?

Better yet, what doses should I take orally?

They are both dopamine agonists