T Nation

Gyno and Keeping in Cycle


#1

What’s up T Nation. First post here. Been following along with this site for quite some time. Decided it was time to join and participate. Quick synopsis of me

35
Lifting 8 years: did in high school but took time off
200lbs
10%
Husband
Dad
Now the issue

Was definitely dealing with low T issues and went to a dr. He was pretty sure I was based off some physical ques. Never did any blood work. Decided to self dose and have been at @ least 200 cyp a week, 100 per shot, for the last 3 years. Life has been dramatically better. Unfortunately the mistake of No AI. just nolva for the majority of that. Learning that was a mistake. Anyways fast forward

This past year I did a bulk.
205 12%- 3 yrs ago was 165 6%
400cyp 2-200 shots a week
exemestane 2 x week
Dbol 4 weeks blast
Deca 12 weeks

Never had any sides. Except acne. And was not getting better finished. Since Last spring I’ve been on 300 cyp and just exem. Acne was still horrible. So a buddy suggested upping exem to lower estrogen to maybe help acne. Well it did. But then I ran out of exem and just went to nolva. Must not have been doing enough nolva cuz as of last week I have 2 little lumps under right nipple. Learning a lot about past cycle mistakes and ordered Adex\nolva for after this issue is resolved.

Found a letro sticky here and following protocol 3. Prob is my letro is 1.5 mg. So doing that daily and then like every 3rd day doing an added Night dose. To hopefully average out the dose to 2-2.5 a day.

So far this past week I’ve kept on my test shots. Did last thurs and yesterday. Feel like gyno flare up hadn’t gotten any worse but not sure.
Wondering if I should lower test shots?
Is the letro the best route while staying on “trt cycle” don’t want to come off.

Planning on adex and nolva after letro cycle is ran. Anyways love the forum. Hope to add insight to it and continue learning. Thx for any help.


#2

Diet, Water, and stick to the AI. If that doesn’t work, lower T dosage or come off.


#3

Thx bshredz.


#4

I don’t think you should come off, but maybe go down to about 250mg with 1.0 to 1.5 are a week and see if it improves. If not get Kerri and follow the letro reversal of gyno thread.


#5

Thx for the input. I’ve read the protocol sticky over and over. If we are talking about the Same one. C-binos sticky? Doesn’t really discuss it as staying on cycle. Maybe I’m reading it wrong. Not sure what Kerry is either? Something to help with letro sides?


#6

Possible treatment for Gyno using Letro:

SERM - Selective estrogen receptor modulator. These drugs work by binding to the estrogen receptors and flooding them in a sense, making it difficult (but not impossible by any means) for estrogen to bind to the receptors and thus prevent the onset of estrogen related side effects.

Most common forms: Tamoxifen (Nolvadex), Clomiphene (Clomid)
AI - Aromatise Inhibitor. These drugs work by inhibiting the aromatization of estrogen. This means that in effect AI’s prevent androgens from converting to estrogen, again, making it difficult (but not impossible) for estrogen to reach receptor sites.

Most common forms: Anastrozole (l-dex, a-dex), Exemestane (aromasin), Femera (letrozole). For our purpose of reversing gyno we are interested in Letro.

Letro and your sex drive:
Letrozole will suppress your sex drive. This is another reason why it is so important to act on preventing gyno as soon as possible. Since we all know that Test should be run in every cycle this will cancel out the effect of sex drive suppression.

Running letro to prevent gyno:
If you decide to run estrogen protection while on cycle (and it’s suggested that you do unless you are aware that you do not require it), you can run either a SERM or an AI.

Letro will be the most powerful AI you can use, it will inhibit 98+% of estrogen using a dose as low as .25mg and even lower. This is why I suggest you do not use a dose higher than .50mg while on cycle just trying to prevent estrogen related side effects.

You will want to start running the letro approximately 2 weeks before you begin your cycle to allow it to fully stabilize in your blood. It’s been said that letro takes up to 60 days to stabilize, I don’t know if I buy into this for the reason that some have reversed gyno after using letro for only 1 week. Still to be safe, it’s recommended to start it before your cycle as stated above.

If you do decide to run letro there is absolutely no need to run another AI or SERM. Do not make the mistake of thinking more is better. Think of it this way; if letro is preventing the conversion of androgens to estrogen than there is no estrogen, what would the purpose of a SERM be when there is no estrogen to bind to the receptors? Nolva will only take away from the effectiveness of letro.

This brings me to my next point. Do not listen to anyone who tells you to bump up your nolvadex to 60+mg ED if you get gyno. I have no idea where this idea started but I have seen it suggest far too many times recently.

Nolvadex will do nothing to reverse your gyno, let me make that clear IT WILL DO NOTHING FOR GYNO. If you are running nolva as your anti-e and start to develop gyno than sure you can bump the dosage a small amount to try to prevent it from progressing further, but letrozole must begin ASAP.

It is very important that you begin taking letrozole immediately, the longer your wait the more risk you take in not being able to reverse it.

This is what I was talking about


#7

Thx @norse_str3ngth. I did see that. i was referring to another post I found. But it was from a diff forum. My bad. Sorry.

I definitely have learned and will run an AI and SERM, Adex and NOLVA, from here on out while on cycle. Just was concerned with keepin on cycle and fighting this flare up. I feel like the 2 glands, lumps, have shrunk a bit in a week. It still kinda itchy. Gonna maintain an approx 2.5mg dosage till all sides go away I guess. Then taper off to Adex and Nolva. I haven’t had huge sides yet from the letro this past week. A little dryer and that’s about it. Joints seem ok.

I plan on conitiuing running 400 a week of cyp ea week. Keep on the letro and see how it goes. I’ll lower to 300-200 if I need to. Think that sounds about right?


#8

Won’t be trying anything else for a good year and make sure the Adex, nolva, Cyp cycle is on point. Need to dial in dosages there. Since never have used Adex. Just aromasin.