[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:
Donut62 wrote:
Adamsson wrote:
What about tank abbots bench? 
Not pretty, but that’s pretty fucking strong.
I don’t care how ugly it is.
He looked like he could’ve handled alot more. That’s one strong motherfucker. What does he weigh?
[/quote]
Tank is usually around 250lbs and he says he benches in the 600’s.
Regards,
Sensless
Although this is a weight-lifting site and hence everyone wants to hear that top MMA stars utilize heavy weight training in their training regimen, I think that is largely just not the case. There is somebody in my school who can bench over 400 lbs and had very good Olympic lifts while weighing about 215 but would get the shit kicked out of him everytime he wrestled somebody decent. I also know wrestlers that are as skinny as a bone but kick the shit out of anyone they face. The best combat athletes focus on playing their sport, not on weight lifting, and it has been interesting to see that the fighters with the impressive lifts are usually not the best fighters.
[quote]VorteX wrote:
ZEB wrote:
You mean if he gave up martial arts and just focused on how much he could lift?
No, I mean how much more explosive etc. would he get if his weights program wasn’t a body part split and he did less steady state cardio.[/quote]
Yea…if he would only lift properly he would probably be an over powering world champion with many submissions to his credit…Oh wait…he already is.
Maybe he’s doing everything right huh?
Hell, my teacher can only deadlift around 300 lbs. This is less than 2x his bodyweight. Yet he kills me in free rolling and sparring. I can pull more, I can squat more (in proportion) but he is still a million times better, if not a billion.
Another fighter I know who is a middleweight doesn’t lift much at all. He can only bench around 200 lbs and yet his striking is very powerful and his jiu-jitsu is great.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yea…if he would only lift properly he would probably be an over powering world champion with many submissions to his credit…Oh wait…he already is.
Maybe he’s doing everything right huh?[/quote]
Did you even read my first post?
Yes Tank can bench 600 and yes he got submitted in less than a minute by Frank Mir. The moral of the story is It Doesn’t Matter How Much They Bench!
[quote]VorteX wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Yea…if he would only lift properly he would probably be an over powering world champion with many submissions to his credit…Oh wait…he already is.
Maybe he’s doing everything right huh?
Did you even read my first post?[/quote]
Yes, I read it.
You stated you are not going to “argue with his results” but then in your next statement you wonder how mcuh he could improve if he used a different routine.
That means that you are in deed questioning his results. Intimating that they could in fact be better if he used a different routine. This of course is your prerogative, but I don’t think it’s all that wise.
If he used a different strength training routine he would have how many more victories?
Come on…
[quote]Thad wrote:
Yes Tank can bench 600 and yes he got submitted in less than a minute by Frank Mir. The moral of the story is It Doesn’t Matter How Much They Bench![/quote]
BINGO!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Yes, I read it.
You stated you are not going to “argue with his results” but then in your next statement you wonder how mcuh he could improve if he used a different routine.
That means that you are in deed questioning his results. Intimating that they could in fact be better if he used a different routine. This of course is your prerogative, but I don’t think it’s all that wise.
If he used a different strength training routine he would have how many more victories?
Come on…
[/quote]
I am not quaestioning his results. He is a great champion and his results speak for themselves.
Where we differ is that you think he cannot get any better, but I think that every fighter is capable of improving.
In theory, at least, many people would agree that these conditioning methods are sub optimal for an MMA fighter.
Maybe he wouldn’t have lost to Penn, maybe his knockouts and submissions would be even more impressive. Im just speculating that he could become an even better athlete than he already is.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
VorteX wrote:
ZEB wrote:
You mean if he gave up martial arts and just focused on how much he could lift?
No, I mean how much more explosive etc. would he get if his weights program wasn’t a body part split and he did less steady state cardio.
Yea…if he would only lift properly he would probably be an over powering world champion with many submissions to his credit…Oh wait…he already is.
Maybe he’s doing everything right huh?[/quote]
Always room for improvement.
[quote]VorteX wrote:
ZEB wrote:
Yes, I read it.
You stated you are not going to “argue with his results” but then in your next statement you wonder how mcuh he could improve if he used a different routine.
That means that you are in deed questioning his results. Intimating that they could in fact be better if he used a different routine. This of course is your prerogative, but I don’t think it’s all that wise.
If he used a different strength training routine he would have how many more victories?
Come on…
I am not quaestioning his results. He is a great champion and his results speak for themselves.
Where we differ is that you think he cannot get any better, but I think that every fighter is capable of improving.
In theory, at least, many people would agree that these conditioning methods are sub optimal for an MMA fighter.
Maybe he wouldn’t have lost to Penn, maybe his knockouts and submissions would be even more impressive. Im just speculating that he could become an even better athlete than he already is. [/quote]
I agree there is always room for improvement.
But because “in theory” some think he is training wrong is just cheap Internet talk. You and some of the others around here should not discount the fact that these guys do “what works.” They know what they need to do and then they do it. No theories…no bull, they live it.
Can someone get better? Yes. And Matt Hughes HAS gotten better!
If you followed his career you know that he is not the same fighter that he was even one year ago.
He has displayed great improvement.
And he has done so using the training techniques that he has used. The ones that he has developed for himself and the ones shown him by others in the actual business of fighting.
Go figure…
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I agree there is always room for improvement.
But because “in theory” some think he is training wrong is just cheap Internet talk. You and some of the others around here should not discount the fact that these guys do “what works.” They know what they need to do and then they do it. No theories…no bull, they live it.
Can someone get better? Yes. And Matt Hughes HAS gotten better!
If you followed his career you know that he is not the same fighter that he was even one year ago.
He has displayed great improvement.
And he has done so using the training techniques that he has used. The ones that he has developed for himself and the ones shown him by others in the actual business of fighting.
Go figure…
[/quote]
Haha. Read what I’m saying. I haven’t once said he is training wrong.
He is an awesome athlete, with fantastic dedication and his technique training is second to none. He does just about everything extremely well.
You seem to think I’m bagging on his skills, which I made clear that I wasn’t.
But you can still go and “live it” with a more optimal training program. I’m just musing that he could make some even greater improvements.
Go and read some of Waterbury’s “cheap Internet talk” on the subject.
[quote]VorteX wrote:
…But you can still go and “live it” with a more optimal training program. I’m just musing that he could make some even greater improvements.[/quote]
The fact that YOU think he needs a more optimal training program means what exactly?
Which brings me back to my original point. How do YOU know he’s not training at his optimum?
Becuase he’s not following a T-Nation program?
Funny stuff!
[quote]ZEB wrote:
VorteX wrote:
…But you can still go and “live it” with a more optimal training program. I’m just musing that he could make some even greater improvements.
The fact that YOU think he needs a more optimal training program means what exactly?
Which brings me back to my original point. How do YOU know he’s not training at his optimum?
Becuase he’s not following a T-Nation program?
Funny stuff!
[/quote]
Zeb,
Come on, man, don’t you know Hughes et al are just dicking around. They need to sign their asses on to a free website and learn how to really train.
As for athletes “always getting better” – no, they can’t. They peak for fights, busting their ass in training/sparring and this takes a tremendous toll on their bodies. It’s very physiologically and psychologically demanding for a world-class athlete, especially a fighter, to stay at the top of his game, much less improve once he’s gotten there. But it doesn’t last forever. Just ask Shamrock.
[quote]VorteX wrote:
Go and read some of Waterbury’s “cheap Internet talk” on the subject.[/quote]
most of the guys who train mma fighters that have read Waterbury’s “Hammer Down” program seem to think he is completely out of his element when it comes to fight training. Ive even seen one call his program “absurd.”
[quote]ZachDelDesert wrote:
most of the guys who train mma fighters that have read Waterbury’s “Hammer Down” program seem to think he is completely out of his element when it comes to fight training. Ive even seen one call his program “absurd.”
[/quote]
That’s pretty funny considering I’ve increased my squat by 30 lbs. and deadlift by about 25 lbs. since doing the Strength portion of that program (about 40 days…while also losing some scale weight). My bench has stayed around the same but my pulling strength has increased tremendously.
The Endurance portion has allowed me to make much better use of my mat time and sparring sessions as I don’t get tired nearly as quickly.
How’s that for “absurd”?
There is no perfect way to train for anything. Weight training should focus on getting you stronger. Hammer Down does just that while also allowing you to train hard at technique without overtraining.
No disrespect to you. I felt like I had to defend the program because the comments you’ve read were probably by other trainers who happen to be involved in a very competitive industry.
Small time fighter, yet one of the strongest.
[quote]carter12 wrote:
ZachDelDesert wrote:
most of the guys who train mma fighters that have read Waterbury’s “Hammer Down” program seem to think he is completely out of his element when it comes to fight training. Ive even seen one call his program “absurd.”
That’s pretty funny considering I’ve increased my squat by 30 lbs. and deadlift by about 25 lbs. since doing the Strength portion of that program (about 40 days…while also losing some scale weight). My bench has stayed around the same but my pulling strength has increased tremendously.
The Endurance portion has allowed me to make much better use of my mat time and sparring sessions as I don’t get tired nearly as quickly.
How’s that for “absurd”?
There is no perfect way to train for anything. Weight training should focus on getting you stronger. Hammer Down does just that while also allowing you to train hard at technique without overtraining.
No disrespect to you. I felt like I had to defend the program because the comments you’ve read were probably by other trainers who happen to be involved in a very competitive industry.
[/quote]
I also have gotten alot stronger through lifting. I can outlift my jiu-jitsu instructor by alot, yet when we roll he feels like 500lbs of dead weight on me… I think that while lifting definitely improves your ability somewhat, doing the sport itself yields much greater benefits.
While the weightlifting routine of Hughes does seem pretty average, his fight training is great, which is what makes him the best.
[quote]Zell959 wrote:
Small time fighter, yet one of the strongest.[/quote]
he’s strong theres not doubt about that, but those arent real squats!
[quote]MikeSh wrote:
I also have gotten alot stronger through lifting. I can outlift my jiu-jitsu instructor by alot, yet when we roll he feels like 500lbs of dead weight on me… [/quote]
Mine too. I always wonder though how much worse it’d be if he were stronger.