T Nation

GW 1516/Ostarine


#1

Well, i took the plunge and ordered some GW 1516 and Ostarine...

started off at 10 mg/day of GW and 25 mg/day of Osta, each in the AM...

i'm on day 6 now, and have noticed general "pump," most likely due to the Ostarine. my joints are feeling a touch better, as well... these are effects both generally attributed to Ostarine.

i backed my Gw dose down a couple days ago.... i did some reading on another site, and a user there pointed out that the manner in how it causes fat loss is very similar to DNP. this makes sense to me, as i got a really weird endurance boost from it... during my workouts (MMA, HIIT, little rest, etc), i would get tired faster during my sets (typically 2-5 min long), but would catch my breath in like 10 seconds... i took today off, so i will see how it affects my endurance tomorrow...

(apparently GW really shines as a fat burner with aerobic exercise, but hinders anaerobic endurance, due to the inefficiency of using fat for energy)

i do seem leaner and more muscular, but the scale hasn't changed much at this point.


#2

About to start the second week of my Osta cycle, it's definitely going well so far. Let me know how the GW is and best of luck with your cycle.


#3

^will update soon... ran into some issues where i was out of town for an emergency a while and forgot to bring my stuff along and unable to train.


#4

These research peptides???? Maybe it's just me but,something that is similar to 5mg's of hgh that $costs $200.00 and then you get these peptides a 5mg's at $17.99 sort of makes me suspicious,at the best it's worthless white powder and at the Worst it's some contaminated virus laden bacteria,moreover the Assholes who sell this mystery substance say it\'s not fit for human consumption??Doesant that raise the hair on the back of your neck? john


#5

^well, no. i presume you're talking about the GHRP's, which is neither what Ostarine or GW1516 is... both are oral.

anyway, the "research chemicals" are interesting to me, partially due to their "grey market" availability..... i have absolutely no issue with responsible AAS use, but i can't partake in it, at this point of my life. these i can....


#6

Well lets see, HGH is a chain of 191 amino acids and GHRP-6 is 28. Perhaps that explains the price difference. In fact HGH labs cost millions of dollars, its so difficult to synthesize that they used to use cadaver HGH back before the current e.coli method was discovered. But good "hunch". Not to mention he's not even talking about peptides but SARMs. Plus peptides are pretty easy to check due to obvious sides...


#7

So what your scientifically saying is that a less sequenced strain of amino acid's requires less Hi tech pharmacology and can be made in your kitchen? instead of a sterile milti complex research facility. Just between Me and you: WANT SOME CRYSTAL METH? I JUST MADE A Batch.Breaking bad.


#8

Hey Bro: I was mistaken,I thought the drugs mentioned where injectable peptides.I apologise I spoke without realizing these are Sarms,actually I am not up on Sarms. One question sarm according to a site I read said. Mice and rats have been the subject of research so fare.I would feel more comfortable with more research and some history,as steroids have been around since the 1950ty's.please provide any feedback on how sarms can benefit muscle building and,or fat loss thanks john


#9

well, they have done a couple studies on Ostarine and LDG-4033...


#10

LGD-4033 (not my writing, but info from another site, along with another link at the bottom):

Gain 1.5 kg lean body mass with three-week course of LGD-4033

Despite the negative reports on S4, SARMs like ostarine have become pretty common among chemical athletes, so another SARM, LGD-4033, is likely to find its way quickly into steroids circles. Especially if you read about the successes reported from the first human experiments with LGD-4033. According to research led by Shalender Bhasin, healthy men can build up 1.5 kg muscle mass in just three weeks by taking the substance. And they managed this without doing weight training.

LGD-4033 was developed by LGD Pharmaceuticals. At present pharmaceuticals companies have about half a dozen SARMs in the pipeline, for which the first round of human studies have been successfully completed, and which could therefore be launched pretty soon. LGD-4033 is one of these.

SARMs are compounds which in terms of structure do not resemble classical anabolic steroid hormones such as testosterone and trenbolone, but which do interact with the androgen receptor. Because they are so 'strange' endocrinologists expect that they will have fewer side effects than their steroids, the anabolic steroids. Steroids throw processes in the body into chaos in a myriad ways because they interact with multiple receptors and enzymes. Because of their design SARMs only interact with the androgen receptor and with no other receptors. At least, that's the idea.

Endocrinologists at Boston University are soon to publish the results of a study they did in which 76 healthy men aged between 21 and 50 participated. The researchers divided the men into 4 groups, of which one group took a placebo every day for three weeks. This was the control group. The men in the other three groups took 0.1, 0.3 or 1 mg LGD-4033 daily.

In the men who took a daily 1 mg LGD-4033 their lean body mass increased by 1.5 kg. That's a lot for a SARM. This is probably partly because LGD-4033 breaks down slowly. The half-life of the steroid was between 24 and 36 hours. LGD-4033 had no effect on fat mass.

The new SARM did have some side effects. The 1 mg dose resulted in a statistically significant reduction of free testosterone in the blood. As you can see in the figure above, after three weeks of taking 1 mg LGD-4033 the testosterone level was only restored to its normal level after five weeks. And before you ask: no, the test subjects did not do post-cycle therapy.

But the concentration of PSA, a protein that predicts the likelihood of prostate cancer, did not rise, which is a positive sign. The blood viscosity did not increase either, which is also a positive sign.

The effects on lipids were mixed. The daily dose of 1 mg LGD-4033 resulted in a significant decrease in the concentration of the 'good cholesterol' HDL. That's bad news. But on the other hand the concentration of trigylcerides went down ? and that's positive. "Long-term studies are needed to clarify the effects of long-term SARM administration on cardiovascular risk", the researchers write.

Not only the cardiovascular effects, but also the reduction of endogenous production of testosterone, mean that the researchers are not entirely convinced of the long-term effects of LGD-4033. "Short-term indications for grievous conditions, such as cancer cachexia or functional limitations following an acute illness or hip fracture, might provide a more attractive risk:benefit profile for initial trials of SARMs than long-term indications such as aging-associated sarcopenia", they conclude.


#11

Ostarine info:

Twelve weeks of 3 mg ostarine daily

The successors to anabolic steroids are called SARMs. SARMs are the brainchild of James Dalton, and he recently published the results of a study in which he tried the SARM ostarine out on 120 healthy men and women.

It did have side effects, but the new substance worked.

SARMs fit in the androgen receptor, but don't have the same structure as steroids. So the enzymes that convert anabolic steroids into compounds with all sorts of undesirable effects are not capable of doing anything with SARMs. That means they should have fewer side effects.

At least, that's what scientists hope.

James Dalton, the mind behind the research pharmaceutical company GTx, is the big man when it comes to SARMs. He and his colleagues devised andarine, known in the chemical sports world as S4 [structural formula shown below]. They also created ostarine, which you may know as GTx-024, MK-2866 or enobosarm [structural formula below left].

Like andarine, ostarine has already shown up in the chemical sports world. German researchers found products containing it being sold openly in web shops.

In 3 mg doses ostarine boosted lean body mass by 1.4 kg. That was a statistically significant effect. In addition, ostarine boosted the power that the subjects developed on a stair-climber. The subjects in the trial didn't do any training.

The fat mass in the 3 mg group also declined slightly, by 300 g. And that was statistically significant too.

Doctors hope that SARMs don't suppress the body's own testosterone synthesis in men. From the table below ? which only shows data on the men in the study ? it appears that ostarine does do this a little. A very little.

Ostarine lowers the level of 'good' cholesterol, HDL. That effect is not very strong either, but in a discussion on Dalton's study two German specialists express their concern. [J Cachexia Sarcopenia Muscle. 2011 Sep; 2(3): 121-123.] "The HDL decrease is still of some concern as this is a proof that there are still unwanted side and not tissue-selective effects of this novel non-steroidal selective androgen modulator", they write.

It seems likely that ostarine, like 17alpha-methyl steroids, causes some amount of liver damage. In Dalton's study, the concentration of the enzyme alanine-aminotransferase [ALT] rose in twenty percent of the subjects. A high ALT level can indicate liver damage.

Dalton also examined whether women grew more body hair as a result of taking ostarine. This was not the case. "GTx-024 provides beneficial anabolic effects on total lean body mass and physical function without the adverse consequences often seen with testosterone and other anabolic steroids", the study concludes. "These data support the development of GTx-024 for treatment and prevention of muscle wasting in patients with chronic diseases."


#12

^for some reason, the recommendation for Ostarine is 25 mg/day, which i have to admit makes no sense, after reading that study.... anyway, that's what i'm using right now, along with GW 1516 and will PCT with tamoxifen. however, i think 5 mg/day should be a reasonable dose, and really cost effective....

i think the dosage protocols are being pushed by the companies selling the SARMs to get people to use more product.... i just read a product write up on LGD 4033, that recommended 3-15 mg/day for a 6-12 week cycle.


#13

Excellent.Thank you for outlining the research available.The 3-pound weight increase that you mentioned would be Impressive if it was in a Trained bodybuilder,as most untrained,older and under weight people that are suffering from any tissue wasting disease usually gain's Lean body mass?? A prime exibit would be prescription Serostrim (HGH) for people with H.I.V. wasting condition.One more question? would a SARM and testosterone injection's work together as a positive force.I ask because your literature states that sarm's reduce serum testosterone. thank you john


#14

^i dunno.... i was debating this on another site, and got banned (no big loss).... but here's my thoughts....

since SARMs work solely by activating the androgen receptor, one would need to pay attention to the class 1/ class 2 theory theory....

i'd stay away from class 1 (since they bind tightly to the androgen receptor, and the SARM and steroid would compete for the receptor, and it would waste one or the other)), but maybe a class 2 or testosterone (both class 1 and class 2) would work, as they stimulate growth through other mechanisms....

but in all honesty, i think the SARMs are better left for use on "off" cycles.... while LGD4030 has a suppressive effect, Ostarine doesn't have nearly the same effect on endogenous production.


#15

Still, it's likely suppressive. I recall reading the results of Dalton's study a while back. IIRC, men in the experimental group displayed lower test and higher E2 after running their course of Ostarine. Neither effect reached the level of statistical significance, but that both effects were observed seems to indicate that there's a good possibility of some degree of suppression.

Suppression may (likely) also show dose-dependent effects. 25mg/day =/= 3mg/day.


#16

yup, i agree... this was something else i debated elsewhere that got me into trouble, i guess...

as far as my results so far, i've been pretty tired, while slightly leaner and more vascular. while i appreciate the cosmetic benefits, it's not my primary goal, so i might start PCT early....

EDIT: i have noticed a mild increase in acne, so there are some androgenic side effects, regardless of what people are claiming...


#17

hey, i'm stopping my cycle of GW 1516 and Ostarine.... i simply haven't noticed much in postitive benefits, minus some minor fatloss and increased vascularity and more of a "pump."

the fat loss isn't anything more than what i notice on T3 (less, actually), which is pretty straightforward to use...

i do not understand how people felt increased endurance and energy on GW1516.... based off how it's supposed to work, it's supposed to increase using fat as a fuel source, and also increase cellular energy expentiture.... both mechanisms seem quite effective for fatloss, but would decrease overall "felt" energy, i would think.... i have been tired all the time since i've been on it, and need at least 9 hours of sleep (i generally feel fine with 7-ish).

i'm not sure about Ostarine.... i would like to try it on it's own (or the new, more powerful SARM, LGD4030), but the bottle i got tastes horrible (like acetone), and i literally dread taking it every day.

oh well, starting tamoxifen tonight (just in case, as i think that there is minimal suppression from this)....

EDIT: i thought about this, and i'm stopping the GW1515, and will give Ostarine another week yet, and then decide on PCT....


#18

One thing I just thought of, for those curious about Ostarine (or the other SARMs)...

supposedly, L-Carnitine Tartrate (2000 mg/day) can increase the number of androgen receptors in the muscle.... this might stack really well with Ostarine, as it would be able to activate the increased receptors....

However, i suppose you'd have to load on the carnitine prior to the Ostarine. this might be worthwhile for other androgen cycles, as well...

Just my .02....


#19

Interesting to read your experience with ostarine. I got better benefits/results from creatine.


#20

ya know, i don't really know...

i made a rookie mistake, and combine the Ostarine with GW1516, so it's hard to tell...

i would agree that creatine is more effective for strength/size, though. and cheaper.

i still wanna run Ostarine again solo, and try out LDG4033 as well.

i'm also curious about GW again, as i'm injured and can't train, but there really seems to be very little scientific data on that. at least real studies have been conducted on the SARMs...