GVT: When to Increase the Weight?

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
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[quote]PatMac wrote:

This is interesting because 1) I agree with you and 2) because you have 8 years of experience to build the kind of strength needed to make a few sets count. I’ve often wondered how long GVT will work for someone before their training age catches up and renders it useless. I think that’s why I grabbed onto Mr. P’s post - his advice applies to well trained and experienced lifters and not so much for new to intermediate ones - ramping to a 135 lbs squat isn’t exactly the best approach to stimulate growth in my opinion.
[/quote] Oh, but you’re forgetting that growth isn’t so much a matter of what you do THIS session, but a matter of how fast you progress over time.
A beginner can do 10 sets of 10 with 90 lbs on the squat or so… That doesn’t magically make him grow 20 lbs.
You got to be able to beat that performance next session… And the session after that… And so on, a+b+c+d until you reach the t-shirts with a lot of X’es before the “L”.

Hey, how will anyone learn how to focus their energy into each set for real… When starting off with 10 sets per exercise?
You don’t get great at something unless you actually do it! (though some may have a gift for certain aspects of training)

I know that many studies and such only focus on volume/TUT and whatnot, but most of the time, the guys in those studies gain a pathetic amount and only train for a few months… On a shitty program etc… Generally unchecked.

You can gain some “quick” mass, 10 lbs or so, maybe a bit more by suddenly switching to some super-high volume routine… But unless you get drastically stronger on that routine, most of your gains are going to be from energy storage etc in the muscles… Which will disappear/go back to normal once you stop doing super-high volume (and your body thus won’t need to store that much fuel in the muscles anymore).
I don’t see too many guys on here who do GVT, gain 20 lbs, keep those 20 lbs, do bbb for 8 weeks or whatever, gain 15 lbs, keep them, switch to program xyz for 3 weeks, gain 5 lbs, keep them and end up at +40lbs total in the end, unless they’re complete beginners and thus able to gain strength fast enough despite the volume of GVT etc… But then again, they could have just done some 55 or 35 program for the whole time or standard bb or whatever…

Too many people just jump from GVT to TBT to what-have-you and due to the constant change of parameters they just go up and down in working-weight with little real progress happening…

That’s why if you want to get huge, or even just big/strong, you want to focus on some long-term stuff… Going from a 135 lb max squat to 5855 or 40520, grinding the reps out… etc, instead of focusing on changing your routine up all the time to keep from “adapting” (muscle-mass accumulation/strength-gain = adapting after all, how stupid is that catch phrase? Their bodies don’t “adapt” to their routine and thus cause stagnation, the volume is simply too much to keep progressing or the food is too little or both etc) or focusing on time under tension or sets and reps and all the minor details that should really fall into place just fine.

[quote]

I think that’s the beauty and downfall to training - at some point you run out of things that work because you achieve the high level of proficiency that negates the usefulness of most of the different programs. [/quote]

Well, “work” is so vague… So what if you gain 2 lbs over 3 months on some routine? Oh, it worked, all right. The results are still pathetic (though that may not be the routine’s fault).

Most programs available in internet articles are too high in volume/work sets for long-term use and usually built around some fancy thing, like the 103 rep range or so (gotta be rebel and turn the 310 around which all those sissy-boy bodybuilders are using… Except that they actually don’t do straight sets, but that’s another topic altogether) or maybe the “end set if barspeed slows down”-rule, or “squat 3 times a week, every week”, or “lift super-slow” or whatever… Usually its one “novel” concept or cop-out that’s being focused on…

Then you add all the “actually big guys are just that way due to drugs/genetics” and such bs and tell people that they’re all hardgainers and suddenly you have a bunch of guys who will happily switch between 19 different internet routines all the time, making rather slow progress and never focusing on what matters… But it’s okay, they’re hardgainers after all etc…

Okay, that was kind of a rant.

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Cephalic_Carnage - Good thought provoking post, thank you!

I will admit that I have been exposed to and believe a lot of what Poliquin says but only because I have experienced some of his predicted outcomes - GVT was very successful for me when I did it the first time (I gained about 10 lbs of lean mass). The only body part that it seems to work for really well now is arms - rest pause or ramping seem to work better now and I believe that has a lot to do with training age.

I believe GVT is a great beginner / intermediate accumulation approach suitable for to individuals who have not yet learned how to recruit the bulk of their muscle fibers but as many have found, less volume is required to stimulate the fibers as one develops the skill to fire them.

I can’t say that we’re on the same page concerning the cycling between accumulation
and intensification phases, but I don’t think we’re looking at this from the same side. I work with developing athletes who are not body builders first. As such, they need to be exposed to a variety of different methods of stimulation to improve their athletic performance.

For what its worth, most people don’t make great gains anyway - be it body builders or athletes - because they do not bring enough intensity to the gym. And if someone isn’t able to generate the intensity on their own the program can only go so far in helping them.

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I currently use GVT but altered to suit my weaknesse. I seemed to perfer a very fast pace of training and being a ex-bodybuilder from the 80s I like to train for feel and pump.I add weight when I get all sets of 10 with good form with 30 seconds or less of rest and feel like I could have done more. I get a great pump and have had to increase calories just to hold on to my current weight.

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[quote]PatMac wrote:
Cephalic_Carnage - Good thought provoking post, thank you!

I will admit that I have been exposed to and believe a lot of what Poliquin says but only because I have experienced some of his predicted outcomes - GVT was very successful for me when I did it the first time (I gained about 10 lbs of lean mass). The only body part that it seems to work for really well now is arms - rest pause or ramping seem to work better now and I believe that has a lot to do with training age.

I believe GVT is a great beginner / intermediate accumulation approach suitable for to individuals who have not yet learned how to recruit the bulk of their muscle fibers but as many have found, less volume is required to stimulate the fibers as one develops the skill to fire them.
[/quote] Explosive positive: Problem solved. (almost all big bodybuilders use, at least on the majority of their exercises, an explosive positive and either a fast or at least controlled negative).
Again, there is the problem that focusing on “stimulating all muscle-fibers” isn’t, as such, going to make you big (else we’d all be doing drop sets a lot…). It’s still the progression that matters…
Of course, beginners can usually grow of just about everything (ok, not always, but you know what I mean) and thus we have a lot of options to choose from when training a beginner…
But enough of that.

It’s a lot easier to sustain intensity when you don’t have to do a ton of sets, though :wink: