T Nation

GVT VS 5x5 For Cutting

So I’m in the process of cutting down for my first show and I was wondering whether or not it would be more effective to be doing GVT or 5x5 as my training program? Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Yes I realize cutting down to be ready for a show is mainly diet but I’d also like input on the training side. Thanks.

I think GVT is way too high volume for a cutting program, not to mention the fact that you’re getting ready for a show so its going to be a very strict diet.

What are your stats?

personaly i would want to be eating as much as humanly possible when doing gvt to make the beast anabolic enviroment for growth, so given the options you gave go with the 5x5.

I think Thibs had it as part of his best evolves article in a fat loss phase. But you might want to consider his destroying fat article -its pretty awesome and could get you where you need to go

Well not GVT anyway!

Maybe youre referring to GBC? German Body Comp?

[quote]rbpowerhouse wrote:
Maybe youre referring to GBC? German Body Comp?[/quote]

I was thinking the same thing…

No I was talking abuot GVT. 10x10 Squat/bench/row fixed rest period. That version of it. Well my stats are:

Started Diet at 185 lbs 10% bodyfat
Been doing GSD for 11 days (it sucks)
Squat: 425 lbs (shoulder width stance)
Deadlift: 405 lbs (Close feet stance)
Bench: 215 lbs
Row: 200 lbs
Power Clean: 190 lbs

Weighed 181 2 days ago and i’ll weigh myself when I go to the gym in the morning. I guess I’ll stick with 5x5

[quote]LiquidMercury wrote:
No I was talking abuot GVT. 10x10 Squat/bench/row fixed rest period. That version of it. Well my stats are:

Started Diet at 185 lbs 10% bodyfat
Been doing GSD for 11 days (it sucks)
Squat: 425 lbs (shoulder width stance)
Deadlift: 405 lbs (Close feet stance)
Bench: 215 lbs
Row: 200 lbs
Power Clean: 190 lbs

Weighed 181 2 days ago and i’ll weigh myself when I go to the gym in the morning. I guess I’ll stick with 5x5
[/quote]

If you’d read any article within the past FOREVER, you would have realized already that the high volume pump sets for losing fat are VASTLY overrated.

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
LiquidMercury wrote:
No I was talking abuot GVT. 10x10 Squat/bench/row fixed rest period. That version of it. Well my stats are:

Started Diet at 185 lbs 10% bodyfat
Been doing GSD for 11 days (it sucks)
Squat: 425 lbs (shoulder width stance)
Deadlift: 405 lbs (Close feet stance)
Bench: 215 lbs
Row: 200 lbs
Power Clean: 190 lbs

Weighed 181 2 days ago and i’ll weigh myself when I go to the gym in the morning. I guess I’ll stick with 5x5

If you’d read any article within the past FOREVER, you would have realized already that the high volume pump sets for losing fat are VASTLY overrated.[/quote]

If you were at all familiar with GVT, then you would know it is not “high volume pump sets”

You want to diet down … you want to drop the volume … you want to keep the poundages close to your maxes to ensure you don’t lose muscle perhaps within 90% of you best … instead of 5x5 go 3x5 or something similar.

You are not lifting to burn fat
You are lifting to keep the muscle

at least that is one approach

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
If you’d read any article within the past FOREVER, you would have realized already that the high volume pump sets for losing fat are VASTLY overrated.[/quote]

Does lifting low reps/heavy weight stimulate EPOC the way using a lesser weight for more reps does?

You can think of lifting while dieting as being a way to preserve muscle; or you can think of it as a way to stimulate additional fat loss. I tend to take the latter view.

I don’t know how much doing lower reps stimulate EPOC, but that’s something I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts on.

[quote]That One Guy wrote:

If you’d read any article within the past FOREVER, you would have realized already that the high volume pump sets for losing fat are VASTLY overrated.[/quote]

yah GVT is definitely not a high volume pump workout. It’s a miserable volume lactic acid buildup. I’ve never gotten a pump from it and I doubt many other people have either.

I’m doing 5x5 and my strength is actually going up still so I guess I’ll keep doing that until I plateu out and go to a 5x3 type deal.

[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
LiquidMercury wrote:
No I was talking abuot GVT. 10x10 Squat/bench/row fixed rest period. That version of it. Well my stats are:

Started Diet at 185 lbs 10% bodyfat
Been doing GSD for 11 days (it sucks)
Squat: 425 lbs (shoulder width stance)
Deadlift: 405 lbs (Close feet stance)
Bench: 215 lbs
Row: 200 lbs
Power Clean: 190 lbs

Weighed 181 2 days ago and i’ll weigh myself when I go to the gym in the morning. I guess I’ll stick with 5x5

If you’d read any article within the past FOREVER, you would have realized already that the high volume pump sets for losing fat are VASTLY overrated.

If you were at all familiar with GVT, then you would know it is not “high volume pump sets”
[/quote]

wow are you a lawyer or something? good job finding something in my words you disagree with and blow it up. What i meant was that its advocated by many that you should lift heavy and low volume during dieting in order to preserve muscle, and if you try a high volume thing you can stand a good chance to lose muscle

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
LiquidMercury wrote:
No I was talking abuot GVT. 10x10 Squat/bench/row fixed rest period. That version of it. Well my stats are:

Started Diet at 185 lbs 10% bodyfat
Been doing GSD for 11 days (it sucks)
Squat: 425 lbs (shoulder width stance)
Deadlift: 405 lbs (Close feet stance)
Bench: 215 lbs
Row: 200 lbs
Power Clean: 190 lbs

Weighed 181 2 days ago and i’ll weigh myself when I go to the gym in the morning. I guess I’ll stick with 5x5

If you’d read any article within the past FOREVER, you would have realized already that the high volume pump sets for losing fat are VASTLY overrated.

If you were at all familiar with GVT, then you would know it is not “high volume pump sets”

wow are you a lawyer or something? good job finding something in my words you disagree with and blow it up. What i meant was that its advocated by many that you should lift heavy and low volume during dieting in order to preserve muscle, and if you try a high volume thing you can stand a good chance to lose muscle
[/quote]

I did find something in your words that I disagree with. Your entire statement. You implied that GVT was a “high volume pump-sets” program and therefore would not be helpful at all for fat loss.

You were wrong. I disagreed with you. While GVT may not be ideal for dieting, you should at least know what it is you are talking about before you go and bash on it.

[quote]fightingtiger wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
fightingtiger wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
LiquidMercury wrote:
No I was talking abuot GVT. 10x10 Squat/bench/row fixed rest period. That version of it. Well my stats are:

Started Diet at 185 lbs 10% bodyfat
Been doing GSD for 11 days (it sucks)
Squat: 425 lbs (shoulder width stance)
Deadlift: 405 lbs (Close feet stance)
Bench: 215 lbs
Row: 200 lbs
Power Clean: 190 lbs

Weighed 181 2 days ago and i’ll weigh myself when I go to the gym in the morning. I guess I’ll stick with 5x5

If you’d read any article within the past FOREVER, you would have realized already that the high volume pump sets for losing fat are VASTLY overrated.

If you were at all familiar with GVT, then you would know it is not “high volume pump sets”

wow are you a lawyer or something? good job finding something in my words you disagree with and blow it up. What i meant was that its advocated by many that you should lift heavy and low volume during dieting in order to preserve muscle, and if you try a high volume thing you can stand a good chance to lose muscle

I did find something in your words that I disagree with. Your entire statement. You implied that GVT was a “high volume pump-sets” program and therefore would not be helpful at all for fat loss.

You were wrong. I disagreed with you. While GVT may not be ideal for dieting, you should at least know what it is you are talking about before you go and bash on it.[/quote]

I do i have done it before but chose the wrong words, but you have validated the point i was trying to make albeit, not choosing my words wisely, high volume routines are definitely not optimal for fat loss. Your offended as if you wrote the program yourself…

I’m cutting a doing a 5x5 too, so, I’d say do 5x5. my 2 cents.

[quote]That One Guy wrote:
high volume routines are definitely not optimal for fat loss. [/quote]

When was this proven?

[quote]CaliforniaLaw wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
high volume routines are definitely not optimal for fat loss.

When was this proven?[/quote]

I think it was proven along with the inherent superiority of full-body routines for everybody.

[quote]KombatAthlete wrote:
CaliforniaLaw wrote:
That One Guy wrote:
high volume routines are definitely not optimal for fat loss.

When was this proven?

I think it was proven along with the inherent superiority of full-body routines for everybody.[/quote]

Heh. :wink:

I actually like That One Guy’s posts and think he generally knows what he’s talking about; so I am genuinely curious why he believes this.

I think that “use high volume because it increases GH is overblown.” But higher volume workouts a) burn more calories than a low-volume workout; b) deplete muscle glycogen more fully (this matters mostly when you’re on a low-carb diet); and c) increases post-exercise oxygen consumption more so than low-rep work.

Also, strength is largely a neurological function. So doing low-reps can also lead to some drama for someone on really low-carbs. I’m at a low-enough carbs that if I do not ingest l-tyrosine, I can barely function. Doing multiple low-rep workouts would tap me.

My own take is this: You really can’t go wrong doing one full-body workout with low reps and one full-body workout with high reps each week. (I only lift twice due to other activities.) Or, if you’re only lifting, one each of low-rep upper and lower, and one each of igh-rep upper and lower. This applies whether or not you are dieting.

I’d take a look at 54321 too…