T Nation

Guzman Captured!

We have a serious dearth of good “world issues” threads right now. Little slacking going on here?

The biggest drug kingpin since Escobar was captured earlier Saturday, run to ground in a hotel. I just thought it might be worthy of a thread.

Thoughts?

Nice, but someone else will just fill his role…

HIP HIP HURAY , the war on drugs is over :slight_smile:

I do not know for sure but if they have truely rendered the Sinaloa Cartel harmless they have surely created a power vacuum

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Nice, but someone else will just fill his role…[/quote]

this

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Nice, but someone else will just fill his role…[/quote]

this[/quote]

I suppose I could also add some color. Just like anything, chopping the head off really doesn’t change the ROOT CAUSE of the problem.

Billions of dollars to be had far outweighs the consequences these guys will face. When you have nothing, you’re willing to risk it all to get everything.

The only way to fight this problem is to make it not so profitable.

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Nice, but someone else will just fill his role…[/quote]

this[/quote]

I suppose I could also add some color. Just like anything, chopping the head off really doesn’t change the ROOT CAUSE of the problem.

Billions of dollars to be had far outweighs the consequences these guys will face. When you have nothing, you’re willing to risk it all to get everything.

The only way to fight this problem is to make it not so profitable. [/quote]

I’d agree with this. I’m really just damn sick of the “ZOMG contraception is abortion” bullshit and the other threads we have and am trying to put some sort of current events up for discussion. Question is do you think this arrest is a good step forward or nothing at all?

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I do not know for sure but if they have truely rendered the Sinaloa Cartel harmless they have surely created a power vacuum [/quote]

No doubt. I’m wondering how bad this will have hurt the Sineloa. I’m also wondering if the newly filled power vacuum will be anywhere as stable as the old one, or if they’ll be easier to pick off because there’s no “king” in the hierarchy. Divide and conquer works fairly well in other areas.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I do not know for sure but if they have truely rendered the Sinaloa Cartel harmless they have surely created a power vacuum [/quote]

No doubt. I’m wondering how bad this will have hurt the Sineloa. I’m also wondering if the newly filled power vacuum will be anywhere as stable as the old one, or if they’ll be easier to pick off because there’s no “king” in the hierarchy. Divide and conquer works fairly well in other areas.[/quote]

only time will tell , if there is no violence than they did little more than catch the person making the profit

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

I’d agree with this. I’m really just damn sick of the “ZOMG contraception is abortion” bullshit and the other threads we have and am trying to put some sort of current events up for discussion. Question is do you think this arrest is a good step forward or nothing at all?[/quote]

Haha, I hear ya. The same ol’ stuff getting tossed around.

I think this is a good step forward as far as Mexican/US Government interaction, further public support for the War on Drugs, and perhaps even a general positive view of the US from a Mexican citizen point of view.

But again, it does little to address the real issues.

  1. Crooked politicians and other public servants such as police(both Mexican and US) will continue to thrive

  2. There is now a well established international distribution system that is probably fairly complicated. Someone, whether it be another Mexican drug cartel or some other well established South American or maybe even Euro/Asia (think Russia) cartel, will take it over. Can’t waste good infrastructure

  3. You have a wealth distribution in Mexico that supports corruption. When 60%+ of your people are in poverty, with less opportunity to move up than almost any other country, you have an unlimited supply of potential criminal employees.

  4. All those people who have no relied upon bribes, pay offs, salaries, etc will be hard pressed to be “ok” with now having that taken away from them b/c some figurehead is now captured.

Keep arresting or killing the newly elected leaders when they show up, it’s the fastest way to ensure no one wants to be leader.

Put the squeeze on the cartels with military and vigilante groups, make it so no one wants to be affiliated with them.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Nice, but someone else will just fill his role…[/quote]

this[/quote]

I suppose I could also add some color. Just like anything, chopping the head off really doesn’t change the ROOT CAUSE of the problem.

Billions of dollars to be had far outweighs the consequences these guys will face. When you have nothing, you’re willing to risk it all to get everything.

The only way to fight this problem is to make it not so profitable. [/quote]

I’d agree with this. I’m really just damn sick of the “ZOMG contraception is abortion” bullshit and the other threads we have and am trying to put some sort of current events up for discussion. Question is do you think this arrest is a good step forward or nothing at all?[/quote]

Anytime you can place sick individuals behind bars it is a step forward. Even if it has no chance of actually solving the problem.

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Nice, but someone else will just fill his role…[/quote]

this[/quote]

I suppose I could also add some color. Just like anything, chopping the head off really doesn’t change the ROOT CAUSE of the problem.

Billions of dollars to be had far outweighs the consequences these guys will face. When you have nothing, you’re willing to risk it all to get everything.

The only way to fight this problem is to make it not so profitable. [/quote]

I’d agree with this. I’m really just damn sick of the “ZOMG contraception is abortion” bullshit and the other threads we have and am trying to put some sort of current events up for discussion. Question is do you think this arrest is a good step forward or nothing at all?[/quote]

Anytime you can place sick individuals behind bars it is a step forward. Even if it has no chance of actually solving the problem. [/quote]

I think one of the problems is they are sweeping up more than just the sick and a lot more

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

I’d agree with this. I’m really just damn sick of the “ZOMG contraception is abortion” bullshit and the other threads we have and am trying to put some sort of current events up for discussion. Question is do you think this arrest is a good step forward or nothing at all?[/quote]

Haha, I hear ya. The same ol’ stuff getting tossed around.

I think this is a good step forward as far as Mexican/US Government interaction, further public support for the War on Drugs, and perhaps even a general positive view of the US from a Mexican citizen point of view.

But again, it does little to address the real issues.

  1. Crooked politicians and other public servants such as police(both Mexican and US) will continue to thrive

  2. There is now a well established international distribution system that is probably fairly complicated. Someone, whether it be another Mexican drug cartel or some other well established South American or maybe even Euro/Asia (think Russia) cartel, will take it over. Can’t waste good infrastructure

  3. You have a wealth distribution in Mexico that supports corruption. When 60%+ of your people are in poverty, with less opportunity to move up than almost any other country, you have an unlimited supply of potential criminal employees.

  4. All those people who have no relied upon bribes, pay offs, salaries, etc will be hard pressed to be “ok” with now having that taken away from them b/c some figurehead is now captured.[/quote]

Well said. As much as I don’t like to say it the reality for people who don’t want to become part of the cartels and do decently are quite limited. The problem of economies is a bit deeper than the drug cartels themselves. As it is there are many towns in Mexico that subsist on money sent back to Mexico from those who immigrate here. People do such so they can have something decent, at the same time moneys going back to Mexico stimulate local economies. It’s never enough though to get the economies themselves going independently of the migrant workers who send money home to build their homes, support their families so they have something decent. Keeping people fed and sheltered takes priority over education and patriotism.

I’m sure people in Mexico would love to stay there, build infrastructure for successful small economies, small businesses was friendly and had potential. It comes down to a lot of uneducated and desperate people looking for opportunity, and wealthy established people trying to keep things the way they are.

I really don’t care about the war on drugs. We lost a long time ago and are going to lose our democracy/republic in out misguided attempt to win it.

That said, this guy is a cold-blooded killer that rivals pretty much anyone in the world right now. He needs to fry.

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Nice, but someone else will just fill his role…[/quote]

this[/quote]

I suppose I could also add some color. Just like anything, chopping the head off really doesn’t change the ROOT CAUSE of the problem.

Billions of dollars to be had far outweighs the consequences these guys will face. When you have nothing, you’re willing to risk it all to get everything.

The only way to fight this problem is to make it not so profitable. [/quote]

I’d agree with this. I’m really just damn sick of the “ZOMG contraception is abortion” bullshit and the other threads we have and am trying to put some sort of current events up for discussion. Question is do you think this arrest is a good step forward or nothing at all?[/quote]

Anytime you can place sick individuals behind bars it is a step forward. Even if it has no chance of actually solving the problem. [/quote]

I think one of the problems is they are sweeping up more than just the sick and a lot more
[/quote]

I actually agree with that, but most of these assholes are exactly what ruffian said: cold blooded mass murderers and kidnappers who deserve to fry. I’d care not at all about some junkie trying to get a fix or trying to break his habit, but a kingpin controlling assassins and murderers, with 1000s of people’s blood on his hands…yeah he needs to go.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]ZJStrope wrote:
Nice, but someone else will just fill his role…[/quote]

this[/quote]

I suppose I could also add some color. Just like anything, chopping the head off really doesn’t change the ROOT CAUSE of the problem.

Billions of dollars to be had far outweighs the consequences these guys will face. When you have nothing, you’re willing to risk it all to get everything.

The only way to fight this problem is to make it not so profitable. [/quote]

I’d agree with this. I’m really just damn sick of the “ZOMG contraception is abortion” bullshit and the other threads we have and am trying to put some sort of current events up for discussion. Question is do you think this arrest is a good step forward or nothing at all?[/quote]

Anytime you can place sick individuals behind bars it is a step forward. Even if it has no chance of actually solving the problem. [/quote]

I think one of the problems is they are sweeping up more than just the sick and a lot more
[/quote]

I actually agree with that, but most of these assholes are exactly what ruffian said: cold blooded mass murderers and kidnappers who deserve to fry. I’d care not at all about some junkie trying to get a fix or trying to break his habit, but a kingpin controlling assassins and murderers, with 1000s of people’s blood on his hands…yeah he needs to go.[/quote]

Then you have people like this