Gunman Kills 16 At Immigration Center in NY

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
A five-barrel 12-gauge shotgun made by inmates in the Texas Penitentiary metal shop. If you want a gun bad enough, you will get a gun, no matter where you are.
[/quote]

Jesus shit I want one of those…

Now off to the range, we’re trying out the line thrower on my buddy’s M1A.

mike

[quote]Ren wrote:
the thought that more armed people would cause an increase in gun violence, or as some people like to say “a return to the wild west” is utterly and completely false.

In actual fact that homicide rate was lower in some of the cattle towns in Texas during the wild west heydays than it is in some of our most gun restrictive states.[/quote]

That’s right. We don’t live in the 1700s anymore. It’s not America the frontier land, and there aren’t roaming gangs of indians or bandidos threatening entire villages of people. Yet this seems to be the mentality of most gun owners. To me it seems like a really elementary excuse for a complex issue.

I don’t understand the rationale for hoarding weapons either. There really isn’t a need for an entire weapons cache of assault rifles in your closet. I knew people like that, and they were very immature and small minded people. It’s like they were praying for the day some vagrant would accidentally roam into their backyard so they could feel justified in pulling out their assault rifle and putting 30 rounds into him - because he was trespassing.

I can’t help but assume that most gun owners are just wannabe tough guys on some weird power trip, as if a gun makes you some sort of bad ass, or somehow better than people who don’t have a gun.

[quote]
but its the fucktards like the people who you see get in fist fights at little kids soccer games and put people in comas, or people who beat the shit out of a guy who got to his favorite parking spot first, or for wearing an opposing teams jersey, that we dont want having increased access to guns. These people clearly can’t control their anger properly.[/quote]

This was my point originally. It’s these people who should be nowhere near a weapon at any time. Unfortunately, most people behave like this - even “responsible law abiding” citizens.

Should I be afraid of being shot by a gang member, or some wannabe tough guy with a CCW? I would be more afraid of the CCW. I know what a gang member looks like, I can avoid those people (I rarely encounter a gang member anyway), but the CCW guys look like your average joe.

What if I’m walking down the street one day and I look over at some random babe with great tits. I accidentally bump into some guy, and cause him to drop his ice cream cone. Now he’s pissed, but he’s also carrying a weapon legally.

What is he was having a real bad week? Caught his wife cheating, lost his job, dog got ran over. Clearly he’s not going to react to me normally. He might pull his gun out and threaten me with it. He might even take a shot at me, because he was feeling “threatened”.

I just don’t trust people that think they NEED a weapon to survive in today’s world. I especially don’t trust people that hoard weapons as if the zombie apocalypse is going to happen next week.

If you want a gun, fine. But please don’t let it get to your head. You aren’t better than enyone else, and you aren’t being chased by thugs everywhere you go. And if you are carrying a gun, and I accidentally bump into you on the street and scuff your shoe, please don’t pull it out on me.

[quote]skaz05 wrote:
tom63 wrote:
Mikeyali wrote:

Good point, happens daily here in North Idaho. I’m scared to leave my home.

mike

Me too in Pa. We have aright to carry st and just yesterday, 17,500 people were gunned down at a hockey game. I just shot 8 motorists yesterday on my way to work.

They were pissing me off. You see, pissy ass liberals don’t realize that gun owning conservatives who are law abiding people are law abiding people.

Want to ban something that will save lives.

I didn’t mean it exactly like that, and I don’t consider myself a pussy ass liberal.

I’m just not comfortable with relaxing gun laws to the point where any dipshit can just walk into any gun store with a couple hundred bucks, and walk out with a gun.

I have never been in the position where I thought I would need a gun to defend myself, or anyone else. It might be bedlam and chaos everywhere else, but here gun violence is so minimal that I don’t feel the need to go and arm myself.

My intense cynicism of people makes me think that people, even law abiding gun owners, only want a gun because they hope that they will have the opportunity to shoot someone. That’s why a lot of people become cops, because they see cops in the movies and think that being a cop means that they will have daily shootouts with the bad guys. I mean why, when you go target shooting, do you shoot at silhouettes of humans?

I have known several so called “responsible” gun owners, and they all seem preoccupied with the thought that they will one day be engaged in some small war with imaginary “bad guys” or that one day a gang of thugs will break into their house and try to kill their family. I think it’s paranioa, gun owners call it “preparedness”.

I just don’t trust people. Even people that claim to be law abiding and honest. Anyone can flip out and lose their common sense, my worry is if that someone is a “responsible law abiding” gun owner.[/quote]

No, thinking like that makes you a pissy ass liberal. Not trusting people, blah, blah. you are operating out of fear, not mistrust.

I was at a gun show today. I’m sure 100s of people were carrying guns. I did not feel unsafe at all. i’ve been a gun owner my whole adult life and have been around gun owners my whole life and they don’t go off half cocked like you think. they tend to be thoughtful smart people.

Careful and safe. And they are exercising their right to self defense, which trumps all other rights. I carry a pistol because I don’t think I need a gun. If I thought I needed a gun, I would carry a rifle. Rifles are offensive, pistols are defensive.

You obviously know little about guns and understand them even less.

How much should guns cost? 1000S or so. Why does a poor man not deserve the right to defend himself. Is 400$ to cheap? Should you have to pay 2500$ for a custom 1911?

And no. we are not hoping for a disaster, we hope and pray it never happens around us gun owners. We just want the option to be able to defend ourselves in case it does happen. I don’t want to have to hope and pray I survive in case something every does happen around me.

[quote]skaz05 wrote:
Ren wrote:
the thought that more armed people would cause an increase in gun violence, or as some people like to say “a return to the wild west” is utterly and completely false.

In actual fact that homicide rate was lower in some of the cattle towns in Texas during the wild west heydays than it is in some of our most gun restrictive states.

That’s right. We don’t live in the 1700s anymore. It’s not America the frontier land, and there aren’t roaming gangs of indians or bandidos threatening entire villages of people. Yet this seems to be the mentality of most gun owners. To me it seems like a really elementary excuse for a complex issue.[/quote]

Tell that to both Americans and Mexicans living along our southern border.[quote]

I don’t understand the rationale for hoarding weapons either. There really isn’t a need for an entire weapons cache of assault rifles in your closet. I knew people like that, and they were very immature and small minded people.

It’s like they were praying for the day some vagrant would accidentally roam into their backyard so they could feel justified in pulling out their assault rifle and putting 30 rounds into him - because he was trespassing.[/quote]

Yeah you have us pegged to a T. That sounds alot like someone saying they aren’t racist because they “have a black friend” or an anti-gunner justifying himself because he’s “a member of the NRA”.

And yes, there is a need for an entire weapons cache. It’s because my old man and best friend still refuse to buy battle rifles. Where do you think they’re going to come when they need one? Firearms also break. They also serve different purposes. [quote]

I can’t help but assume that most gun owners are just wannabe tough guys on some weird power trip, as if a gun makes you some sort of bad ass, or somehow better than people who don’t have a gun.[/quote]

You’re apparently the living embodiment then of what happens when you assume.

mike

[quote]Varqanir wrote:
A five-barrel 12-gauge shotgun made by inmates in the Texas Penitentiary metal shop. If you want a gun bad enough, you will get a gun, no matter where you are.

PB-Crawl wrote:

the modern gun owning law abiding population is spot on, safe, and responsible for the most part (98%).

but its the fucktards like the people who you see get in fist fights at little kids soccer games and put people in comas, or people who beat the shit out of a guy who got to his favorite parking spot first, or for wearing an opposing teams jersey, that we dont want having increased access to guns. These people clearly can’t control their anger properly.

Well, those are precisely the people that federal and state laws already on the books is designed to weed out.

As I mentioned previously, people convicted of felonies or misdemeanor crimes of violence, fugitives from justice, illegal aliens, drug abusers, people dishonorably discharged from the armed forces, and even people who have renounced their US citizenship, are prohibited from ever buying or owning a gun.

Regardless, many of them do buy and own guns, illegally. Or they have their wives or girlfriends buy them for them. Or they steal them. Or they make them (it ain’t that hard. If you’re smart enough to pass high school metal shop, you can make a 12-gauge shotgun).

Just as they will continue to do regardless of ANY law prohibiting them from doing so. Criminals will always find a way of arming themselves, no matter how restrictive the laws become.[/quote]

im not arguing for stronger gun laws. we have pretty good laws on the books as is.

but i dont like hearing people bitch and moan about how ANY gun laws are unconstitutional. or that columbines would not happen if we let kids carry guns on college campuses, or robberies wouldnt happen if we let every one carry concealed.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
PB-Crawl wrote:
but do you think if we doubled or tripled the gun ownership in say east LA or Oakland that gun crime and murders would not go up?

Do you think all people that live in the inner city are too stupid to handle the responsibility of a firearm?

If you lived in East LA and you knew “everyone” was carrying a gun how likely would it be that you would think about committing a violent, armed crime there?

Minorities living in the US need guns more than white people – because the police do not care about them at all. Yet, in states with the largest minority populations gun laws are the most restrictive and violent gun crimes are the highest…go figure.
[/quote]

criminals and gangsters know other gangsters carry weapons, that doesn’t stop them from fighting turf wars does it? no, it just makes them try harder at getting in the first shot or blow, through drive bys and surprise.

i used a city as an example where gun culture is not prevalent, people in cities view guns as murder weapons, while people in rural towns, large areas of canada, texas, ect view them as tools for hunting and protecting livestock ect, and where guns and shooting skills are passed down generations, this does not happen in cities to any large extent.

was not making any racial arguments there, just pointing out dangerous places that would only get worse not better, if more people carried guns.

you could probably point out any area with a large population making significantly less income or high amounts of people in poverty (many minority areas, and white ones too)will have high gun crimes simply because people turn to crime for a stable income, regardless of the gun laws.

Police: Gunman ‘lying in wait’ killed 3 officers

[i]PITTSBURGH (AP) ? A gunman wearing a bulletproof vest and “lying in wait” opened fire on officers responding to a domestic disturbance call Saturday, killing three of them and turning a quiet Pittsburgh street into a battlefield, police said.

Police Chief Nate Harper said the motive for the shooting isn’t clear, but friends said the gunman recently had been upset about losing his job and feared the Obama administration was poised to ban guns.

Richard Poplawski, 23, met officers at the doorway and shot two of them in the head immediately, Harper said. An officer who tried to help the two also was killed.

Poplawski, armed with an assault rifle and two other guns, then held police at bay for four hours as the fallen officers were left bleeding nearby, their colleagues unable to reach them, according to police and witnesses. More than 100 rounds were fired by the elite police teams and Poplawski, Harper said.[/i]

[quote]skaz05 wrote:

but its the fucktards like the people who you see get in fist fights at little kids soccer games and put people in comas, or people who beat the shit out of a guy who got to his favorite parking spot first, or for wearing an opposing teams jersey, that we dont want having increased access to guns. These people clearly can’t control their anger properly.

This was my point originally. It’s these people who should be nowhere near a weapon at any time. Unfortunately, most people behave like this - even “responsible law abiding” citizens.

Should I be afraid of being shot by a gang member, or some wannabe tough guy with a CCW? I would be more afraid of the CCW. I know what a gang member looks like, I can avoid those people (I rarely encounter a gang member anyway), but the CCW guys look like your average joe.

What if I’m walking down the street one day and I look over at some random babe with great tits. I accidentally bump into some guy, and cause him to drop his ice cream cone. Now he’s pissed, but he’s also carrying a weapon legally.

What is he was having a real bad week? Caught his wife cheating, lost his job, dog got ran over. Clearly he’s not going to react to me normally. He might pull his gun out and threaten me with it. He might even take a shot at me, because he was feeling “threatened”.

I just don’t trust people that think they NEED a weapon to survive in today’s world. I especially don’t trust people that hoard weapons as if the zombie apocalypse is going to happen next week.

If you want a gun, fine. But please don’t let it get to your head. You aren’t better than enyone else, and you aren’t being chased by thugs everywhere you go. And if you are carrying a gun, and I accidentally bump into you on the street and scuff your shoe, please don’t pull it out on me.[/quote]

So you expect people to be so irrationally impulsive that they’re threat to you, yet you don’t take steps to prepare to defend yourself in such a situation.

That’s so… irrational.

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
PB-Crawl wrote:
but do you think if we doubled or tripled the gun ownership in say east LA or Oakland that gun crime and murders would not go up?

Do you think all people that live in the inner city are too stupid to handle the responsibility of a firearm?

If you lived in East LA and you knew “everyone” was carrying a gun how likely would it be that you would think about committing a violent, armed crime there?

Minorities living in the US need guns more than white people – because the police do not care about them at all. Yet, in states with the largest minority populations gun laws are the most restrictive and violent gun crimes are the highest…go figure.

criminals and gangsters know other gangsters carry weapons, that doesn’t stop them from fighting turf wars does it? no, it just makes them try harder at getting in the first shot or blow, through drive bys and surprise.

i used a city as an example where gun culture is not prevalent, people in cities view guns as murder weapons, while people in rural towns, large areas of canada, texas, ect view them as tools for hunting and protecting livestock ect, and where guns and shooting skills are passed down generations, this does not happen in cities to any large extent.

was not making any racial arguments there, just pointing out dangerous places that would only get worse not better, if more people carried guns.

you could probably point out any area with a large population making significantly less income or high amounts of people in poverty (many minority areas, and white ones too)will have high gun crimes simply because people turn to crime for a stable income, regardless of the gun laws.[/quote]

prohibition…plain and simple. This has nothing to do with guns in and of themselves. There are many more people who have nothing to do with gangs that would benefit from owning a firearm for their own protection.

Whether gangsters want to kill each other does not matter in this regard. Every individual should have the right to defend himself and be secure in his property regardless of “social status.”