T Nation

Gun owners are loser, wimps, & cowards

“Handgun owners are loser, wimps, & cowards”.

That’s what would be author Tony Hendras said in the “self defense” section of Details magazine this week. He also made fun of Charles Heston’s illness and said that MLK and JFK hated guns. Very obnoxious and pompas article. Let Details know how you feel about Hendras’s opinion.


Yes, the articel is the typical Leftist BS that the New York Times regularly dishes out. You can see their typical stylings all over it. Lies, inaccurate information, misquotes and personal attacks. For those of you who have not read Slander yet now would be a good time. As for Tony, just check out his biography. Oh what a real hero he is.
As for being a loser, wimp and coward. Hell no, but I wonder what he would think if he know I was a highly trained professional killer thanks to Uncle Sam. He…He. Best of Luck.

How can you read a magazine that has L Dicaprio on the cover anyway? The whole anti-gun thing in the media is pretty disturbing. Does anybody realize that part of the reason that we don’t have more crime is because we have the right to bear arms. Convicts have been polled and its a unanimous vote for robbing places that they know don’t have guns. You take away the right for lawfull ownership of guns you only hurt the law abiding people. Whats with these morons that think that passing a law has any effect on the choices or actions of criminals. They are “criminals” they don’t follow laws. Hello? Look it up in the dictionary! Too many f***ing morons in this country that think they have a clue.

I think the second amendment has little bearing on modern American life. I believe for countless reasons that handguns and assault/automatic rifles should be illegal to own. It is my opinion that they cause much more harm than good. The ends simply do not justify the means. Gun freaks scare me, and I hate recreational hunting. I think it’s absolutely barbaric and pathetic unless the animal is used for food. It’s a tricky situation in which there are no rights and wrongs. I hope this thread does not turn into the smoking debate all over again, but I guess I kinda pointed it in that direction. Peace and love, GreasyGreek.

Um…do you know why the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution was written? Hint: It has nothing to do with hunting.

Side note:Are you a vegetarian?

I can understand your opinion, I have heard it repeated hundreds of times from hundreds of misinformed people that haven’t taken the time to do enough research to form a valid opinion on this subject. The only press that guns get is bad press. You never hear about crime statistics going down as concealed carry permits go up etc. You never hear about the crimes that were prevented or averted by lawful gun owners exercising good judgement and thier 2nd amendment rights. Guns give people bad impressions because anytime you hear about one being used, it was a bad situation, even if it was justifiable and saved lives. It still was a bad situation so a negative stigma is attached. I agree about the gun freaks. Gun freaks scare me too, but they are obsessed with guns and they will get guns whether they are illegal or not. Same with criminals, they always find ways around the laws. If you outlaw guns the only people that won’t have them will be the law abiding citizens. Making guns illegal won’t magically make all the bad guys guns dissapear. It won’t stop people from killing each other either, plenty of household items are plenty deadly when used as weapons. Sad thing is, a woman with some basic training and target practice can fend off a rapist a lot easier with a gun than with a bat, or a knife. Because the gun isn’t dependant on her brute strength or athletic skill to do damage, it has it’s own power. She doesn’t have to get close to the rapist to disable him, she can keep a safe distance and usually ward him off. If you ban guns violent crimes won’t stop, they will more than likely increase, and they will be far more brutal than they are now. Also, just for shits and giggles lets pretend for a minute that you were going to be killed and couldn’t avoid it, but you somehow got a choice of what kind of weapon that you would be killed with. Of course this situation probably will never happen (I hope!) but what would you choose? A)shot by a gun B)stabbed C)impaled D)axed or chainsawed E)Bludgeoned F)blowed up G)burned H)drowned I)strangled or hung J)etc. etc. etc. Just a thought. On another note, if your home was being broken into by a psychotic killer, what would you rather have to defend yourself and your family? A gun, a bat, a kitchen knife, pepper spray, a chair, a bullwhip like Indiana Jones? I don’t know, just think about it. I hope I never have to use my gun, but I sure as hell don’t want to go without one. Stay safe and may God watch over you :slight_smile:

Recreational hunting is not pathetic and barbaric. A long time ago your ancestors had to hunt to eat and I don’t see the difference in hunting today. Every hunter I know eat what they kill. I grew up hunting in the south and I’m sure if you grew up around people hunting you would feel different. It’s also a good way to keep the animal population in check. Countless recks are caused by deer and many crops are eatin by geese. Hunting keeps the population in check so that these problems don’t effect us that much.

I’ve been hunting for 31 years now so I kind of have a handle on what’s involved. Firstly recreational hunting, with the exception of varmint shooting, is about eating the animal. Many states have laws requiring all usable meat to be removed from the field and those laws are strictly enforced, not only by law officers but other hunters. Hunting is one of the few places where other participants will actually bring violators in to face charges rather than look the other way.

A beef is raised on a ranch, herded up, loaded into a truck and hauled to a stock yard. There it’s sometimes fed a diet to fatten it up while it stands in overcrowed conditions and in shit up to it’s hocks. Then it’s herded up a chute where it can hear the bawling of the animals ahead of it and smell the blood in the slaughterhouse. When it gets to the front of the line it gets impacted in the head with an air powered captive bolt gun and it’s finally lights out. A deer or elk is free from the time it’s born to live out it’s life as wild animals always have. One day it’s feeding in a meadow or walking to it’s bed and it’s hit by a bullet or an arrow. Sometimes it never hears the shot, other times it jumps and runs for a few seconds and then dies. Most of the time it never sees the hunter that killed it. Which scene is more pathetic and barbaric?

Then there’s the “assualt” rifle thing. In the US, a country of 285 million or so people the numbers of people murdered every year by any type of rifle is around 1500. That’s about the same number as get killed by feet, hands, and fists every year. As a murder weapon rifles just don’t seem to be that popular and “assault” rifle murders are a tiny fraction of that number. Why make criminals out of the millions of gun owners that don’t cause harm to anyone over that? Why blame the tool for the acts of the person in the first place? Do we ban cars or booze to deal with DWI fatalities?

It would be nice if more people would think instead reacting to their feelings. It would be nicer if people dealt with facts instead of general impressions gathered by watching TV. I guess that’s too much to hope for.

I just wanted to say that you wrote a good post Forrester. It was well thought out and made me definitely see the other side of the picture. I also just wanted to specifically point out that I said “unless the animal is used for food” in my first post. I am only getting at those people that derive a sick and primal thrill through the power and control a gun can give towards killing defenseless animals. An important issue here is that guns are not the only effective way to debilitate a person. There a countless effective non-violent ways to defend yourself and your family.

Spoons kill!

Ban spoons they make people fat!

At least demand registration and a special gourmands license for ‘high capacity assault spoons’, and require mandatory training before you can possess one, and should also close the loophole that anyone can give or sell spoons to anyone else w/o a license

its for the children!

re: An important issue here is that guns are not the only effective way to debilitate a person

There is a continuum of force and evasion, with firearms at the top (last resort) and situational awareness “avoidance” at the bottom (first tactic)

My 110 Lb Wife, or my elderly Mom has fewer options than I do if the 250 lb PCP saturated psycho killer rapist comes calling with his trusty machete.
I suppose a firm NO!
and then sing Kum bay ya.. maybe burn some Patchouli Incense and balance said 250 lb PCP saturated psycho killer rapists heart charka, and heal his inner child, wile wearing her Birkenstocks eating alfalfa sprouts couscous.with her miso stained India shirt in a lotus position would stop him from hacking my wife apart and having sex with her various bodyparts he keeps in the fridge... yea.. that would be much more 'comfortable'
brings a tear to your eye doesn't it?

Group hug!!

Ok, my computer messed up, so I am sorry if I post this twice. I am a proud gun owner, and I am a firm supporter of the 2nd ammendment. To anyone who believes that handguns should be outlawed, just look at Australila. They confiscated all guns, and made it illegal to own one, within the years following, violent crime has shot off the charts!! So much for it helping crime, all they did was disarm those who are law abiding. You see, the very thing that makes a criminal a criminal is the fact that he does not obey the law. So more laws restricting firearms, will only give the lawbreaker more laws in which to break, and it will restrict the man who wishes to follow the law, and essentially disarm him.

…Because the gun isn’t dependant on her brute strength or athletic skill to do damage, it has it’s own power. She doesn’t have to get close to the rapist to disable him, she can keep a safe distance and usually ward him off. …

I guess. But how would a woman know that someone might try to rape her until they are at a very close distance? In many cases a woman probably does not even see the rapist before he attacks. In that scenario it would be very hard to fumble around in your purse while someone is trying to physically abuse you. Then if the gun were to be brought out, I’d bet the chances of the rapist getting his hands on it would be better than the victim actually using it to protect herself.

If a woman somehow knew 5 or ten seconds ahead of time that somebody walking behind her or coming toards her was a rapist, then having a gun would be great. But most of the time she probably would not know until it was too late.

…Countless recks are caused by deer and many crops are eatin by geese. …

From the deer’s standpoint, I bet he’d say countless wrecks are caused by cars and careless/reckless drivers.

Seriously, how many wrecks do you think are caused by deer out of all the wrecks that happen? Maybe 1%. I don’t know. Can’t be higher, probably lower. I never bought that as a reason to hunt.

If we as a society want to do something about auto accidents, I think a lot of stuff would come before shooting deer.

First. Let’s say I agree with what JV said about a woman (or a man for that matter with a gun for “self defense”). Yes the rapist (or felon) could take it away from her/him. What is why in every gun related posting hear I have always adovcated firearms training. The kind I am talking about is not going to a range and outting holes in piece of paper. When my wife wanted to learn how to shoot, I had her take a crime justice course at Murray State University on police firearms and self defense. Police are trained in working close-up with people and guns. This is the type of training everyone who is considering a gun for self defense should take. The course also covered weaponless self defense. Living in the North East deer have become a problem. Since the reintroduction of wolves and cougars is out of the question in surburan and rural areas, man must step in. It is not pretty, but then neither are deer straving to death.
Best fo Luck.

re: it would be very hard to fumble around in your purse while someone is trying to physically abuse you. <-- (fucking KILL you)

Dont keep a pistol just floating loose in the bottom of a purse!
keep in a holster, trouble approaches its hand on hip in low ready position.

Like POLICE and SOLDIERS do to protect themselves.

My post never had anything to do with deer being the main reason for auto accidents. I was merely pointing out that when deer populations get out of hand accidents and like what older lifter said about the deer starving can happen. As the human population grows, the deer have less and less habitat to live in. Hunters keep the populations in check and keep the deer from starving.

Spoons kill! LOL

Thanks, I needed that. :wink:

“There a countless effective non-violent ways to defend yourself and your family.” Good quote, it also takes a bit of wind out of the “defenseless animal” arguement. Deer are far better at escape and evasion than most guys are at hunting. Having a high powered rifle doesn’t even come close to making it even. The average hunter gets detected and evaded by dozens of deer before one makes the mistake that allows him to see it. Out of the deer you see the number you have a chance to shoot is limited by regulations and finally by the skill you possess in shooting.

The backpedaling on the “if it gets eaten” was nice but the original statement was very similar to “I support marriage and family life except in the case of domestic abuse”. Most guys don’t beat their wives and most hunters don’t shoot game and leave it to rot. Deer getting hit by cars was mentioned. In many states more deer are killed by vehicles than by legal hunting. Self defense is a learned skill, as is the use of a weapon. An untrained person, not sure if they will shoot an attacker or not, shouldn’t be carrying a gun. Guns don’t belong in purses, in my state a concealed weapon permit doesn’t allow carry in a purse. The gun has to be on your person in a holser or some other secure restraint. Many cops are killed with their own weapon. You don’t see them tossing their guns in the trash because of that. Why? Because far more of the time the gun is used to protect and preserve life, most of the time without being fired. The only time I’ve ever had to arm myself against potential danger the mere knowledge I had a gun was enough to deter any further resistance from the guy. Other people had wrestled him to the ground. He had been struck once with a length of pipe and he was still fighting to get away. I showed him the butt of my revolver and he gave up and waited for the police to arrive, which took another 15 minutes. I caught another guy when I was unarmed. Surprise, 35 lb. or so more lean mass, and the fact I was a bit angry worked well enough that time. You don’t always have to have a gun. I rarely ever carry mine anywhere but sometimes nothing else will do if you want to keep sucking in air for a few more years.

Here’s something for all you player hating gun dissers out there. If guns were banned in this country who do you think would be the only people with guns? Criminals and Law enforcement officials. There would still be crime and there would still be fucked up people out there willing to fulfill their delusions of grandier.

To greasygreek: Hunting is not bad at all, it needed and desperately needed in some areas. Deer populations are continuing to grow, due to a lack of natural predators. Shit I about hit one of those fuckers the other night.