T Nation

Gun Control


#1

Now here is something that bothers me and I know has been discussed a few times. I have a problem with gun control and all these liberal politicians and how they plan on getting tougher on guns and gun laws.

Here is my major problem, when you toughen up on gun control all you really do is take gun's out of the honest citizens hands. Do liberals really think that criminals walk in to your local gun shop and attempt to legally obtain a handgun? As a polic officer in the state of New Jersey it took me 11 weeks to be approved to buy my off duty weapon even though I already carry a department issued weapon. Now if I'm a criminal all I have to do is know someone who knows someone and bang I have a gun.

I guess what I'm asking from the liberal base on this board is to explain to me why you believe so heavily in taking gun's out of the honest citizens hands when the criminal element will always have same day access to a gun. On a whole where gun control isn't as strict(i.e. Texas) violent crime is lower. On the flipside in states where control is tight there is much mre gun related violence(i.e Cali, NY and NJ).


#2


More guns = less crime


#3

I agree 1000%!!


#4

Can I get an AMEN!!!


#5

Can I get a "oops"!!

http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/usworld/news-article.aspx?storyid=46963


#6

I call you bid, & raise you one.
http://www.rense.com/general19/schd.htm


#7

If you really wanted to look at arguments fromn both sides I would go here:

But we really all know that no amount of argmementation or persuasation is going to change anybody's mind. Gun control is now mostly a concept linked with emotion,m beliefs and values over rational thought.

How one views the world that surrounds him shapes his beliefs/values and vice versa.

So if you take other countries in the world their mentality will be

More Gun = More Crimes...

Where an American might want to fight the criminal that comes to rob his house (defending oneself, protecting the family and so on), a Canadian on the other hand will let the guy rob him believing that ''its just stuff anyway, no need to risk ones life for it''.

Granted you could factor in the crazy weirdo that we see in movies that is going to come to your house and try to rape and maime your family.

This whole topic is more linked to how ones sees the world rather than how it really is. (on both

AlexH.


#8

Oops is right. Just think, if Mr. Principal had been allowed to possess a weapon, he would have had a fighting chance, and might have gone home to his family last night. As it stands, however, our wonderful government schools are "gun free zones" wherein only the criminal has nothing to worry about. You've got to do better than this.


#9

Would this include France?


#10

Those "students" were in their late 20's and 30's. Why even call that a "school shooting"? I'm not even against guns being owned by adults who are trained to use them. I am against the broad stroke as if guns for all and less background checks or less waiting times are the way to go. I could care less that it took the original poster 11 weeks to get a gun. He got it. Why is that even an issue? I am also not for the idea of everyone walking the streets freely holding weapons in their hands. the average person with road rage could take that too far. My stance would probably be forced proof of knowledge that the person buying the gun even knows how to handle one. Continue background checks and continue the wait times. Why is someone in a hurry to get a gun?


#11

Do better than what? Because I am against kids being near guns I have to be for taking all guns away? Why do so many conservatives on this board only see in black and white? No one else seems to be thinking this way.


#12

First of all, the gun laws in California ARE pretty lax. They're only slightly more restrictive that TX and AZ, which both allow for open carry without a special permit.

I'm not really sure where I stand on the issue of gun control. While I support less gun violence, I don't think gun control laws would have that effect. The problem is mainly a cultural one and that's what needs to change. more laws won't do it.

Gun violence is primarily an American problem, most of it having to do with either the aquisition, or defense, of property.

As far as the second amendment is concerned, I don't think it was written with the current interpretation in mind. Who could have imagined in the 1700s that we would have the world of today. I'm pretty sure armed robbery wasn't a big problem back then.

It was written right after the revolution, and our founding fathers wanted to make sure that the population was prepared in the event another one was needed, hence the "well regulated militia" part. Everything just mutated from there.


#13

I think many people are uniformed of the intent gun control legislation is directed, I believe the driving force of gun control is not to reduce "crime" per se, but rather to curb the rising domestic violence issues...revengeful wives shooting their cheating husbands, and children?s access to their parents guns are a few examples.

Personally, I do own guns for recreational activities and do not necessarily deem gun control as a priority issue governments should be funnelling tax money into. Saying that however I appreciate that I am not informed enough on the subject matter to make those decisions.


#14

When have I EVER identified myself as a "conservative"? Are you sure you're not vroom?

Maybe if, instead of just linking a story, you had actually made a point, I would have known what such point was supposed to be. By the way, what WAS it supposed to be?


#15

What do you think the point was? In a thread started as if guns are the greatest and everyone should have them without care, here is a recent story of yet another kid shooting someone in school with one. Guns are a serious issue. I doubt anyone for guns without restriction or or someone for no guns with complete restriction has a complete grasp of the situation. I would venture that the answer is much more in the middle than some would admit.


#16

The original intent of my post was to attempt to point out that no matter how the government attempts to control law abiding citizens rights to own guns, the bad guys will always be able to get them on demand. Do I agree with background checks? Absolutely. Do I think that waiting times should be reduced? Definitely, with regards to quickly yet still safely completing the background check.

As for another school shooting, how about we do the adult thing and place responsibility on the parents or hell the 15 year old who committed the act. People are oh so quick to blame the fact that the kid had a gun. In my 28 years I have never seen a gun kill or injure anyone. I have seen a person kill or injure someone. It's time society gets a clue and starts holding people responsible for their actions. All to often people look for something else to blame.


#17

As for you, do you ever get tired of pretending to know everything and everyones intent on a post? Not one person on this thread stated guns were "the greatest" and "everyone should have one". Can you honestly sit there and tell me that this 15 year old wouldn't be able to obtain a gun on demand regardless of what kind of gun laws were on the books?


#18

As for you....no, not really.

I believe that this kid had access to a gun and it probably came from home as most do. Yes, the parents are to blame...but so is a society that assumes that metal detectors are only necessary in "that" neighborhood.

Also, I don't claim to know everything. Boston Barrister could school me in every field as far as legal knowledge is concerned. Others have their specialties. All of us are outspoken and all of us have a background in some area where we could nearly be called experts...at least as far as I can tell by many who respond in this forum. Why does it bother you so much that I made a decent point instead of just yelling out another "Amen"?


#19

[quote]snipeout wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Fonebone wrote:
Maybe if, instead of just linking a story, you had actually made a point, I would have known what such point was supposed to be. By the way, what WAS it supposed to be?

What do you think the point was? In a thread started as if guns are the greatest and everyone should have them without care, here is a recent story of yet another kid shooting someone in school with one. Guns are a serious issue. I doubt anyone for guns without restriction or or someone for no guns with complete restriction has a complete grasp of the situation. I would venture that the answer is much more in the middle than some would admit.

As for you, do you ever get tired of pretending to know everything and everyones intent on a post? quote]

You have to ask?


#20

Ah, the race card. What does this have to with anything being discussed here?

Don't flatter yourself.

Obviously is a dig at my semi-sarcastic post above. I am in agreement with the gist of more guns = less crime, and the post was a way to express it with a touch of humor. Please stop assuming that because someone has a strong belief about something, they "lack a grasp of the situation" or "only see things in black and white". That is patently absurd. I am well acquainted with both sides of this debate. Oh, and you might try to develop a personality trait other than belligerence.