T Nation

Gun Control

Well we all know what transpired today. We also know what has transpired over the years in North America (mainly the US). I don’t know if we’ve talked about gun control on here yet, but assuming we haven’t, what are your opinions? I’ll start.

I think everyone should be able to have a weapon. Sane people won’t use it as an excuse to kill willy nilly. If guns were outlawed, people bent on killing others will find a way to get a gun no matter what. Plus they’ll be even more inclined to carry out their crime because they know others won’t have weapons on them. That’s why I believe everyone should have a weapon on them. Murderous people will think twice when they shoot up places because they’ll know a significant amount of people will be carrying concealed firearms.

What do you think?

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The more well-armed you are, the more well-armed your State will have to be.
In the long run, what was intended to preserve yourself from tyranny only hasten its coming.

2nd amendment thread below. Gun control isn’t the answer, though I can see left leaning people on my facebook absolutely blowing up about it today.

A sick, absolutely awful thing happened because of a sick, absolutely awful individual. This cannot be prevented. Sick, absolutely awful individuals will always find a way to do sick, absolutely awful things. Banning guns won’t prevent this from being the case and is no more the answer than banning knives because of a stabbing.

Making things illegal won’t stop them from being obtained either. See heroin. See abortion in countries where it is allowed. See prohibition.

Violence will find a way. It always has. A man sick enough to do what this person did isn’t going to be stopped because you made a gun illegal. In fact, guns may prevent this from happening. Indeed, it is my best line of defense against sick individuals.

I know you Americans truly love your guns, but I personally feel that banning the ownership of guns or having some type of gun control law would prevent or at least reduce the number of shootings you have.

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Most people should be free to purchase and own guns and ammunition if they want them; and those who have guns should be free to conceal them in most places under most circumstances.

I think that in today’s world, in most places and under most circumstances, it is best if nobody (e.g. who might be interested in robbing or raping) can be confident that any particular stranger does not have a loaded gun.

Most guns and ammunition should not be subject to any nation-wide, centralized registration: because that would make it too easy to confiscate them.

One other thing: good gun control = aim with both hands (I know, I know, not original).

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[quote]theBird wrote:
I know you Americans truly love your guns, but I personally feel that banning the ownership of guns or having some type of gun control law would prevent or at least reduce the number of shootings you have.
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[/quote]
Myself, I do not love guns. But I love having a lower rate of robberies, burglaries, and stranger rapes than would be the case if there were a higher degree of confidence that random civilian strangers do not have guns. So: I love freedom to own guns, even though I don’t really like the guns themselves.

I don’t know what should be done. But I am going to respectfully request that every one who owns firearms make sure they are secured

Please, take an honest look at those around you for those that might not be completely stable. Hell, I have a cousin that was jailed for almost beating someone to death. I wouldn’t let him near a gun.

We all have aquaintences or relatives who we are not quite sure of. Please, make sure that your weapons are secure.

[quote]kamui wrote:
The more well-armed you are, the more well-armed your State will have to be.
In the long run, what was intended to preserve yourself from tyranny only hasten its coming. [/quote]

Sheer brilliance. Classic arms race.

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:
The more well-armed you are, the more well-armed your State will have to be.
In the long run, what was intended to preserve yourself from tyranny only hasten its coming. [/quote]

Sheer brilliance. Classic arms race. [/quote]

for the Record , I a gun owner , believe in self dense

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
…believe in self dense[/quote]

I believe you are too.

[quote]SexMachine wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:
…believe in self dense[/quote]

I believe you are too.[/quote]

Buhaaha

This about sums up my ideas on the issue:

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

[quote]nickj_777 wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:
The more well-armed you are, the more well-armed your State will have to be.
In the long run, what was intended to preserve yourself from tyranny only hasten its coming. [/quote]

Sheer brilliance. Classic arms race. [/quote]

On the other hand, the “classic arms race” started in neolithic times and won’t stop anytime soon, no matter what.
Actually, it’s not only about “classic arms race”. it’s about historical and political cycles.

the next logical step of the cycle is this one :
The sooner tyranny arises, the sooner you get rid of it.

And sometimes, this may be “cleaner” and less damageable than a slow, deep and irreversible decay.

I’m neither pro nor anti-gun control.
Here is my position :
-Armed violence is bad, and we should remember this. And never celebrate it in any way, shape or form.
-Its evil is sometimes a lesser evil, depending on historical circumstances.
In a rising empires, gun control may be a good idea, and an absolute necessity. In an waning one, it’s usually a bad, self-defeating idea.

In America’s case, it’s way too late to try to do it.

[quote]theBird wrote:
I know you Americans truly love your guns, but I personally feel that banning the ownership of guns or having some type of gun control law would prevent or at least reduce the number of shootings you have.

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You are 100% right. Banning the use of heroin, cocaine, meth, and a host of other drugs has certainly eliminated their use. I seem to recall hearing it was illegal to murder someone. The shooter must not have gotten the memo. How about you check out the gun crime stats in places like D.C., Chicago, and Detroit and see how well banning gun ownership has worked there. In Wyoming, nearly anyone not a felon or previously institutionalized can carry a concealed weapon without a permit. The bloodbaths seem to have not happened. In fact, just last week, a man attempted to rob a business in Casper and a customer pulled a gun out of her purse and scared the man off. Who knows what might have happened to the employees if she had not been carrying.

[quote]kamui wrote:
The more well-armed you are, the more well-armed your State will have to be.
[/quote]
why?

We can debate gun control till we are out of breath, but something else is going on that is simply not a function of the availability of guns. This psycho - and others like him - acted out some massive death fantasy that seems to be occurring with more frequency.

I don’t pretend to psychoanalyze these maniacs, but for some reason, the desire to just go kill someone who wronged you isn’t in vogue - there must be a stage, a huge body count of people unrelated to a narrow personal grudge, and often a blaze of glory.

Guns have nothing to do with this impulse or its troubling increasing frequency. True, more advanced weapons can enable the killer to raise the body count faster, but such an argument is irrelevant to yesterday’s massacre based on the facts we have and the kinds of weapons he used.

I don’t know if we can “cure” these impulses, but we would wise to focus on them. What drives them? Ordinary murderous impulses (which are awful, but let’s face it, “normal” in the human condition) jacked up and enhanced by the need for attention in a world more driven by instantaneous attention than it ever has been? Increasing social atomization? Creeping nihilism?

I don’t have the right answers, and I don’t pretend to, but our time is better spent asking these questions rather than about gun control. The impulse to do this is the true instrument of death here, not a firearm.

Time to ban knives. This could happen next in the US:

http://www.courant.com/sns-rt-us-china-stabbingsbre8bd065-20121213,0,5592318.story

Knife-wielding man injures 22 children in China

BEIJING (Reuters) - A knife-wielding man slashed 22 children and an adult at an elementary school in central China on Friday, state media reported, the latest in a series of attacks on schoolchildren in the country.

Elementary School teacher in Isreal.

“Protect Our Children” – They’re doing it right.

[quote]squating_bear wrote:

[quote]kamui wrote:
The more well-armed you are, the more well-armed your State will have to be.
[/quote]
why?[/quote]

because a State is, by nature and definition, a local (quasi-)monopoly on violence.
So a state has to be more well-armed than its citizenry. Or else it can’t enforce its rule and ensure its monopoly, and it’s not a State at all.

Give weapons to a group of citizens, you’ve got a militia.
Give more weapons to a larger group of citizens, and you will soon have a mafia.
Give them even more (and bigger) weapons, they will start to take yours, and you will start to call them “government”.

“Government” is simply the name given to the more well-armed group in an area.

-Gun control does not keep guns out of the hands of criminals. Gun control keeps guns out of the hands of good, law abiding citizens.

-In the UK, violent crime spiked when the gun ban was instituted.

-The news media is partly responsible for the increase in mass murders. http://www.upworthy.com/how-the-media-coverage-of-mass-shootings-makes-everything-worse

It all starts with the family. Parents don’t discipline their children anymore. Schools CAN’T discipline children anymore. Kids are turning into a bunch of entitled pussies, and then growing up to be adult entitled pussies. What does a child do when he doesn’t get what he wants? He throws a temper tantrum. What does the same child do when he grows up without discipline and feels wronged by society? He throws a temper tantrum i.e. goes out and kills a bunch of innocent people.