Light session today at Doherty’s Campbellfield. One of the few gyms I’ve gone to with metal plates they are good fun.
Working out starting weights for the next volume block on various exercises. Nice and light so I can rep it all day and plenty of room to add work.
Squat
No safety bar but played with a high-ish bar position. More comfy than last time but not sold on it. Starting weight ~ 100kg. Safety squat bar stuff gonna start at 80kg I think.
Bench
Tried out wide grip and close grip today up to 80kg.
Wide grip felt surprisingly good compared to times in the past I’ve incorporated it. Close grip the stronger grip I think for now. Will start these out at 70-80kg for high reps.
Deadlift
Playing with deficit heights for conventional and sumo. Been told a small deficit is enough to get an effect so it seems an inch or two will be good.
Able to get into a safe position for both lifts with the deficit and weights look like starting around 110kg and 120kg for conventional and sumo respectively. Might increase deficit on the conventional a smidge
Seriously, if you eat stuff like that regularly, plus the occasional box of donuts, it would be easy to lose some fat just by eliminating junk from your diet. If I ate like you I would weigh 400lbs.
In my opinion piggie, you are Already “high bar” squatting. Your normal style is close stance and upright. Maybe you carry the bar slightly not so high, but the overall motion is like a “high bar” squat. Your squat is Already “hard.” This is very good for training.
If you moved your Feet apart and leaned forward a little more while pushing the hips back, even if you didn’t adjust the bar placement, you’d be “low bar squatting.” The wider stance and lean would allow you to use more hips and back and less ROM for more weight. This “easier” style would be better for competition, because you would lift more weight. I feel like I can almost see you trying to use the forward lean and back/hip motion of the low bar or wide stance squat during your heaviest squat video from the other day. But your feet are so close together the motion isn’t smooth.
Why? they are sufficiently different to justify having different names do you not think?
Got to disagree with you a little on the rest of the paragraph. While I get what you are saying, its not as simple as squatting with a low bar stance, with high bar positioning makes squatting easier. Yes foot placement makes a difference, but foot placement has as much, if not more to do with hip joint anatomy and relative lever lengths of shin, femur and back as it does bar placement.
Just look at an array of world class squatters, the foot placements vary wildly from very narrow to very wide. All with low bar placement on the whole.
Moving the bar up or down your back makes a fundamental difference to the physics of the lift, on its own, irrespective of foot width.
Dude, you’re a great Power Lifter. I’m in No position to argue with you. I’m not exactly sure what you’re saying though.
High Bar vs Low Bar
“Just to make my opinion known before diving in (if you can’t guess it already): It really doesn’t matter.”
-Greg Nuckols, from the article you posted.
All im saying is, him sticking with his bar position and just moving his feet wider will not give him a ‘low bar squat’ and it will not be an ‘easier squat’.
And if you continue reading and get full context, he says it doesn’t matter what you train with, both will strengthen and grow the muscles involved. but It absolutely does make a difference in what you can lift, and they absolutely do have different biomechanics, explicitly because of where the bar is placed.
Lets assume it is (or at least should be) the question, the answer is it depends. He would most likely squat the most by learning low bar squat (not necessarily wider stance, the entire point of my last few posts).
He might be one of the outliers with mechanics that mean he will find them equally effective, or possibly even high bar more effective for moving maximum weight, in which case it would be the former. However he would only know by trying low bar and seeing how it transfers after a few weeks.
But that was never what I was talking about, I’ve already told him I think he’d probably squat more low bar. I just disagreed with the specific point you made here, that wide stance high bar will replicate low bar. Outside of contortionist levels of flexibility, it won’t.
I also reaaaallly didnt want to come across as argumentative as I think I have.
In my opinion, pig’s squat is on the “Olympic squat” side of the spectrum (relatively high bar, relatively close stance, relatively upright, more knee forward movement, relatively “hard”). Going higher bar will move more towards “Olympic.”
In my opinion, he would move more weight with a more “power lifting” style. ( Relatively lower bar position, relatively more forward lean, relatively wider stance, Relatively more vertial shins, relatively “easier”).
The 2 moves are much different, like you said, different mechanics. Even though the difference in bar placement is 2-3 inches, according to Nuckols. If pig is already using a “hybrid” bar position, were down to an inch difference. In my opinion, moving the feet out and sitting back a little more would move pigs squat More towards “low bar” or “powerlifter” style. According to Nuckols, most people move 10-15% more weight this way.
I think we should talk more about the overal mechanics of the squat vs just the bar position. I believe pig should explore the Mechanics of the low bar squat (vertical shins, forward lean, wider stance) to try to get that 10-15%. Because, in my opinion he already uses an Olympic, “high bar” style of squatting.
Going more high bar may be great to train legs more. I think the SSB is cool too. But I believe there are Gains to be made learning a more low bar or PL style squat, and competing that way.
This is my point. Were at the point were we clearly agree on 95% of whats going on here, but you cant get that 10-15% extra weight without shifting the bar down your back. Its that shift lower down your back, that shortens the length of the lever arm (your spine) that causes all of the changes that give you that extra efficiency. You simply cannot replicate it by playing with stance and kicking your hips back. The lever HAS to be shorter. If you leave the bar high, and still sit back more, you get the mechanical downsides without the prime upside of a shorter lever arm.
Again I agree, If I was him I would spend some time with the low bar squat, I would also suggest that the switch might require him to tweak his stance slightly based on comfort. I would not, though, equate low bar squat with a wide stance as a given or prerequisite.
Again agree, SSB great for training his legs, but he is 6 months out and has time to split between hypertrophy focus (SSB) and strength focus, depending on whether or not he wants to learn a new squat style ofcourse.
