T Nation

Guaranteed Cure for Racism

…religion was designed to give the tribe a specific sense of identity compared to other tribes. Religion will always, by design, be exclusive. Religion can’t therefore be used as a tool to bring humanity together as one. It has failed to do so in the past 2000 years, and only a fool continues to believe otherwise, no matter how closeknit and supportive his community may be…

I know you don’t really wanna pound this old ground again Ephrem. Even dead men can intellectually grasp the oft reiterated concept that the Word did not become flesh and dwell among us to “bring all men together”. The Gospel is exclusive and narrow. In that you are correct. Jesus Himself said so and so have I one million times.

Remember? Two species of mankind? One dead in the first man Adam and one made alive together in the last? All men born dead? Spiritually stillborn if you will? Some are born again into newness of life by being made partakers of the resurrected Christ Himself? Come on you remember.

The point is, where Jesus Christ reigns in the hearts of men, racism does not and indeed CANNOT exist. Where there is racism, there Christ is not. Just like where there is terrorism, perversion or anything else unbiblical, there also Christ is not. People can claim whatever they want. It occurred to me as I am A man in very great need of fellowship and support right now that these very black people are there though I am white as the wind driven snow. We don’t see each other as white and black. Only as brothers and sisters. So ya’ll can post whatever academic sludge you please. I stand by my position.

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…religion was designed to give the tribe a specific sense of identity compared to other tribes. [/quote]

LOL, so says one of your liberal professors huh? I love this place, young impressionable guys being twisted by our universities. It really doesn’t get any better than this.

LOL thanks again.

[quote]CappedAndPlanIt wrote:
Funny how right wingers are typically both religious and racist.[/quote]

Nice stereotype, way to go. And you probably think black people are lazy and stupid right?

No, actually it would be a good thing. Granted if the whole world were “religious” that would be a bad thing. You need to stop stereotyping, is that possible where you come from?

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
@ephrem (and Mr.Kubrick)

GREAT post.

We have to overcome (monotheistic) Religion and similar cursed scourges to get rid of racism.

The OP’s post is a slap in the face of humanity.

[/quote]

Wait, how is one man’s opinion regarding faith a slap in the face of humanity? I don’t share his beliefs but I don’t get how you got to your conclusion.

Religion wasn’t designed exclusivly for exclusivity.
Different religions have sometimes very little in common. Some tribal religions are really just an extension of identity and cosmological structure,

However, the worst ARE the monotheisms (Maybe without the Bahai, but that is only a question of time).
Nothing good came purely out of monotheistic religion. If good things do come out of it’s just a replacable label. Who really thinks that people need the bloody banner of christ/allah to do good things?
If a religious person wants to help otheres, his religious brainwashing will convince him it’s because of god.
Do the founders of “Médecins Sans Frontières” tell it’s BECAUSE they are an “atheistic” group they help people in need. Of course not.
However, the wars, the torture and beheadings done ONLY or mainly because of religious motivations are endless and make a strong case against religious world peace.

WE ARE ONE RACE.
We are so already.
We don’t need the sky butchers approval to not kill or hurt each other anymore.

It’s a slap in the face because religious people don’t see that. You could say that a person who argues so probably won’t overcome his own, inner racist beliefs.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I know you don’t really wanna pound this old ground again Ephrem. Even dead men can intellectually grasp the oft reiterated concept that the Word did not become flesh and dwell among us to “bring all men together”. The Gospel is exclusive and narrow. In that you are correct. Jesus Himself said so and so have I one million times.

Remember? Two species of mankind? One dead in the first man Adam and one made alive together in the last? All men born dead? Spiritually stillborn if you will? Some are born again into newness of life by being made partakers of the resurrected Christ Himself? Come on you remember.

The point is, where Jesus Christ reigns in the hearts of men, racism does not and indeed CANNOT exist. Where there is racism, there Christ is not. Just like where there is terrorism, perversion or anything else unbiblical, there also Christ is not. People can claim whatever they want. It occurred to me as I am A man in very great need of fellowship and support right now that these very black people are there though I am white as the wind driven snow. We don’t see each other as white and black. Only as brothers and sisters. So ya’ll can post whatever academic sludge you please. I stand by my position.[/quote]

If you cannot argue religion without the damn bible, you aren’t fit for debating.
Also:
Islam’s case is even stronger. Their book is even more designed towards unity and a world-religion.
And at least their leader really existed.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
I know you don’t really wanna pound this old ground again Ephrem. Even dead men can intellectually grasp the oft reiterated concept that the Word did not become flesh and dwell among us to “bring all men together”. The Gospel is exclusive and narrow. In that you are correct. Jesus Himself said so and so have I one million times.

Remember? Two species of mankind? One dead in the first man Adam and one made alive together in the last? All men born dead? Spiritually stillborn if you will? Some are born again into newness of life by being made partakers of the resurrected Christ Himself? Come on you remember.

The point is, where Jesus Christ reigns in the hearts of men, racism does not and indeed CANNOT exist. Where there is racism, there Christ is not. Just like where there is terrorism, perversion or anything else unbiblical, there also Christ is not. People can claim whatever they want. It occurred to me as I am A man in very great need of fellowship and support right now that these very black people are there though I am white as the wind driven snow. We don’t see each other as white and black. Only as brothers and sisters. So ya’ll can post whatever academic sludge you please. I stand by my position.[/quote]

…and yet you continue to discriminate against me, making distinctions between “alive through the word of god”, and those who are not being “spiritually dead”. I have no doubt that shared beliefs can make distinctions of colour and race irrelevant, that’s not what i argue against…

…can’t you see that as long as you insist on one true path, that anyone who doesn’t follow that path is a lesser man in your eyes? And that, if you believe that, you are cut from the same cloth as racists?

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…religion was designed to give the tribe a specific sense of identity compared to other tribes. [/quote]

LOL, so says one of your liberal professors huh? I love this place, young impressionable guys being twisted by our universities. It really doesn’t get any better than this.

LOL thanks again.
[/quote]

…pushharder also fooled himself into thinking i must be a youngster. Is that how you maintain the charade Zeb? My birthdate is the 27th of march 1971, but i don’t expect you to believe me though, it might contradict your preconceptions…

If science ends up demonstrating the existence of multiple alleles responsible for what we consider intelligence (and other characteristics, such as aggresion)…further, that those alleles have not only not been distributed uniformly among individuals, but also non-uniformly between populations…well, science, interestingly enough, could end up being the most solid foundation for an enduring and widespread racism, yet.

My bio Prof. was briefly commenting on the distribution of lactose tolerance/intolerance, and such things as sickle-cell anemia/malaria a couple of classes ago. Of course texture of hair, color of skin, and shape of eye were all discussed. Basically, traits showing up in different populations. Ah, how natural selection has provided us with a diversity of beauty. As if we were variations of flower, swaying in a gentle spring breeze within a sun-kissed field.

However, later in the lecture a student asked about heritable influence on intelligence. He answered in the affirmative, that yes, there probably were a number of alleles which might be found in differing distributions among individuals. There was a heavy silence. Indeed, a palpable silence. I’m certain that many of the students considered–recalling the earlier half of the lecture touching upon racial/ethnic variations–were asking themselves the population/racial question. None dared asked it aloud, of course. But the mood had visibly changed.

…why would that lead to racism, Sloth? If science would go on to show that your alleles-theory is correct, then that would prove that everything a racist thinks is superiour is simply the result of a happy accident. Then no racist would be able to point towards a higher order that gave his racial niche the upperhand; it would simply be nature…

Nobody argues against the concept of ethnicity.

If you can tell from just looking at a person where his parents came from, it’s a safe bet that the biological concept of race cannot be dismissed easily. But that is not racism.

Diversity is a boon.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Nobody argues against the concept of ethnicity.

If you can tell from just looking at a person where his parents came from, it’s a safe bet that the biological concept of race cannot be dismissed easily. But that is not racism.

Diversity is a boon.[/quote]

…ofcourse racism is not just about race. Racism is indicative of a certain mindset, and that is why it amazes me that someone like Tiribulus can, at one hand, celebrate the coming together of all kinds of people through religion, but happily dismisses a whole set of people with the other hand. And that is also exactly why religion can’t solve the problem of the mindset that brings forth racism; it’s part of that problem…

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…why would that lead to racism, Sloth? If science would go on to show that your alleles-theory is correct, then that would prove that everything a racist thinks is superiour is simply the result of a happy accident. Then no racist would be able to point towards a higher order that gave his racial niche the upperhand; it would simply be nature…[/quote]

How wouldn’t it? It being an accident, would only strengthen racism. Man has one shot, in a very limited lifespan, at self-awareness (or at least the illusion of). Time is something he’ll eventually run out of entirely. And even material resources aren’t unlimited. So, inevitably, man will make decisions and judgements, decide how to allocate resources, and choose where to live based on efficiency and expediency. It’s not the racist’s fault that generalizations and stereotypes could–at least partially–find comfort through further study of the genome. That is, natural selection may yet provide a cold and clinical rationality for dismissing “achievment gaps” and other socio-economic concerns. That not only social realities, but also biological realites, might justify choosing to live in a neighborhood based solely on it’s racial make-up. So on and so on. Even if it has to be exaggerated, it would still be very powerful.

The lack of a Universal God leaves room for one of the two, or both; the Dawrinian racialist and a sort of paganistic ethnic-tribal racialist. Racism built upon Christianity, for instance, is a house built on sand. It has always been an uneasy existence. Christianity itself has been turned on the “Christian Racialist.” Be it through the abolitionist movement, hymns sung by slaves along the underground railroad, civil rights marchers singing those same hymns, and Christ’s own instructions to love all of mankind as children of the one God. To bring the good news to all. Whatever differences may or may not be found at the population/group level, doesn’t give the Christian cause to treat with another individual in any way, but as he himself would be treated. As a child of God the creator of all. Science doesn’t answer that question, it’s simply up to man to decide what he’d do with such information.

And, isn’t my theory. Simply a very real possibility at this stage. Nature doesn’t care about political correctness. No trait is off limits because it might hurt our PC sensibilities. While I may have serious doubts as to how much of a role allele distribution might play in the expression of intellectual/social characteristics, I don’t want to be some PC-egalitarian who might eventually look like Galileo’s opposition.

Scientists will be able to have your kid blue eyes or white skin, eventually.

We can’t really define “intelligence”, “passion”, “motivation” etc.
And culture/education triumphs over the other aspects easily.

So you cannot create a superaryan race.

Next:
Your idea of divine vaccum exists only in your head.
History has shown again and again that religious beliefs, esp. the more extrem ones, tend to sectify heavily.
And you still cannot show us how your god is the right one; why not Mr.Allah?

Point deduction for trollisms:
Darwin has 0 to do with racism.
“paganistic ethnic-tribal racialists” is a silly concept, too, for tribal societies think in terms of tribes, not “races”.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…why would that lead to racism, Sloth? If science would go on to show that your alleles-theory is correct, then that would prove that everything a racist thinks is superiour is simply the result of a happy accident. Then no racist would be able to point towards a higher order that gave his racial niche the upperhand; it would simply be nature…[/quote]

How wouldn’t it? It being an accident, would only strengthen racism. Man has one shot, in a very limited lifespan, at self-awareness (or at least the illusion of). Time is something he’ll eventually run out of entirely. And even material resources aren’t unlimited. So, inevitably, man will make decisions and judgements, decide how to allocate resources, and choose where to live based on efficiency and expediency. It’s not the racist’s fault that generalizations and stereotypes could–at least partially–find comfort through further study of the genome. That is, natural selection may yet provide a cold and clinical rationality for dismissing “achievment gaps” and other socio-economic concerns. That not only social realities, but also biological realites, might justify choosing to live in a neighborhood based solely on it’s racial make-up. So on and so on. Even if it has to be exaggerated, it would still be very powerful.

The lack of a Universal God leaves room for one of the two, or both; the Dawrinian racialist and a sort of paganistic ethnic-tribal racialist. Racism built upon Christianity, for instance, is a house built on sand. It has always been an uneasy existence. Christianity itself has been turned on the “Christian Racialist.” Be it through the abolitionist movement, hymns sung by slaves along the underground railroad, civil rights marchers singing those same hymns, and Christ’s own instructions to love all of mankind as children of the one God. To bring the good news to all. Whatever differences may or may not be found at the population/group level, doesn’t give the Christian cause to treat with another individual in any way, but as he himself would be treated. As a child of God the creator of all. Science doesn’t answer that question, it’s simply up to man to decide what he’d do with such information.

And, isn’t my theory. Simply a very real possibility at this stage. Nature doesn’t care about political correctness. No trait is off limits because it might hurt our PC sensibilities. While I may have serious doubts as to how much of a role allele distribution might play in the expression of intellectual/social characteristics, I don’t want to be some PC-egalitarian who might eventually look like Galileo’s opposition.[/quote]

…Tiribulus said repeatedly that i’m spiritually dead because i don’t share his beliefs. That makes me, in his eyes, a lesser man. In the strictest sense that’s not racist, but it’s the same in principle…

…this is something that’s inherent to religion, and that makes religion inherently racist. When you take away the God-component and accept that all there is is nature first, and nurture second, all you are left with is chance. And chance is not much of a basis for racism…

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Point deduction for trollisms:
Darwin has 0 to do with racism.
“paganistic ethnic-tribal racialists” is a silly concept, too, for tribal societies think in terms of tribes, not “races”.

[/quote]

Oh, that’s funny.

  1. Darwinian racism is very much alive. The Universality of Christianity is rejected for the supremacy of natural selection’s determination of the ‘winners’ and ‘losers.’ Darwinistic racists argue that natural selection has not distributed favorable intellectuall/social traits in a way that would simply allow one race/population to step in for another. Even with economic/educational factors being controlled for.

  2. My god man, what more obvious characteristic that one doesn’t belong to the tribe in question than race? Aryan minded individuals are readily rejecting Christianity due to it’s incompatibility. Norse gods are for the Aryan, and the dark-skinned fella isn’t Aryan.

[quote]Sloth wrote:

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:
Point deduction for trollisms:
Darwin has 0 to do with racism.
“paganistic ethnic-tribal racialists” is a silly concept, too, for tribal societies think in terms of tribes, not “races”.

[/quote]

Oh, that’s funny.

  1. Darwinian racism is very much alive. The Universality of Christianity is rejected for the supremacy of natural selection’s determination of the ‘winners’ and ‘losers.’ Darwinistic racists argue that natural selection has not distributed favorable intellectuall/social traits in a way that would simply allow one race/population to step in for another. Even with economic/educational factors being controlled for.

  2. My god man, what more obvious characteristic that one doesn’t belong to the tribe in question than race? Aryan minded individuals are readily rejecting Christianity due to it’s incompatibility. Norse gods are for the Aryan, and the dark-skinned fella isn’t Aryan.

[/quote]

This post is absolutely correct, darwinian philosophy can and is very easily turned to racism.

…man, you guys are getting desperate. I never heard of Darwinian racism and found this gem of a book on Amazon, here’s the description: "Who are you? Where did you come from? Are you being told the truth? How does what you believe link you to the world’s worst mass murderers, being judged by the color of your skin, super babies of the future, and today’s school curriculum?

Mere generations ago, a man named Charles Darwin introduced his Theory of Evolution which permeates today’s society. Its premise is that some groups of people are less evolved than others and, therefore, inferior. As a result, millions have died when targeted by race, class or disability. There are those who say that this same philosophy, that helped fuel Hitler’s ovens, has crept into America’s school system when no one was watching. Others contend that evolution, which was rooted in racist and class elitism and is today being taught, makes some of us superior and more “fit” to live on the planet.

Are you fit enough? Is your family fit enough? Who survives? Who decides? In America, are we one nation under God or one nation under Darwin? As two worldviews of race and class collide, it is time to decide what you believe regardless of your social status or the color of your skin."

…how stupid can you get for believing this tripe and outright lies? Really Sloth, are you that stupid? How can a relatively sane person like you believe this shit?

[quote]ephrem wrote:
…man, you guys are getting desperate. I never heard of Darwinian racism and found this gem of a book on Amazon, here’s the description: "Who are you? Where did you come from? Are you being told the truth? How does what you believe link you to the world’s worst mass murderers, being judged by the color of your skin, super babies of the future, and today’s school curriculum?

Mere generations ago, a man named Charles Darwin introduced his Theory of Evolution which permeates today’s society. Its premise is that some groups of people are less evolved than others and, therefore, inferior. As a result, millions have died when targeted by race, class or disability. There are those who say that this same philosophy, that helped fuel Hitler’s ovens, has crept into America’s school system when no one was watching. Others contend that evolution, which was rooted in racist and class elitism and is today being taught, makes some of us superior and more “fit” to live on the planet.

Are you fit enough? Is your family fit enough? Who survives? Who decides? In America, are we one nation under God or one nation under Darwin? As two worldviews of race and class collide, it is time to decide what you believe regardless of your social status or the color of your skin."

…how stupid can you get for believing this tripe and outright lies? Really Sloth, are you that stupid? How can a relatively sane person like you believe this shit? [/quote]

What?