T Nation

GSP's Comeback vs Bisping


#1

So are the 4 guys that frequent this part of the forum even remotely interested in this? I think the UFC’s new owners are making a joke of the organization and clearly are all about making the most marketable fights with little regard to fighter ranks and who deserves the next title shot.

But whatever who cares. I am still excited to watch GSP fight. I think he beats Bisping and I think he beats him for all the reasons he stated in that press conference. He is more athletic and his fight IQ is higher. How much higher is to be debate but I think he is definitely the more intelligent fighter of the two.

I give it to GSP but I think he’s got his work cut out for him. Bisping has no quit in him. I remember when he fought Sonnen in that title eliminator fight (and was robbed imo, I love Sonnen too) I don’t think Sonnen ever got a legit clear takedown. Maybe one I would have to rewatch. I think the fight stays standing and probably goes the distance.

Where does GSP go from there. Vacate the title. Fight winner of Woodley vs Damian Mia. Then vacate 170 go to 155 fight Conor Mcgregor, beat Mcgregor make insane money and retire as the greatest MMA fighter that ever lived.


#2

dude i agree , the new owners are making a joke of it. even after the quality card UFC 210 , they make WWE style interviews. showing Manuwa and jones and baaaa, its disturbing.

but i am thrilled GSP is back , i really hope that he is in good shape and fights his ass off and does not end up like BJ Penn.

Bisping is no joke, i don not understand why the other fighters are overlooking him .
i understand their UFCs new approach on "fun"fights, but on the other hand many many great talents are sidelined for fucking nothing. Calibers like:
Jacare, Demian Maya, Khabib, Ferguson, Max holloway, yoel etc.

ah and uriah faber, why does he never get one … :wink:


#3

First off as amazing as Penn was I don’t even think they can be compared to one another. GSP is a whole other kinda animal. He would never end up like Penn. If there is one thing you can count on it is that GSP is going to be in phenomenal shape. Whether he can shake the ring rust off quick enough to do battle with Bisping is another question though. But from what I’ve seen it appears GSP has been very active during his hiatus.

Yeah I would love to see Bisping deal with Yoel Romero’s physicality. I wonder if his skill set could neutralize that.

Also would love to see Mcgregor vs Khabib since Khabib said he would smash him no problem.


#4

I’m hoping GSP comes out of retirement ala George Foreman and adds some wins and titles to his legacy. I would personally prefer to see him return to his “pre-Serra 1” mindset of actively trying to win fights rather than simply not losing though. I think if he just tries to out point The Count he might be in for a long night, especially coming off such a long lay off without fighting.

If GSP beats Bisping though, then I think things get interesting. Everyone has seemed to get bigger since GSP retired and add to that the moving up a weight class issue and I think he would have serious problems physically dealing with guys like Yoel, Jacare, or Rockhold. I would love to see how he would do against guys like Mousasi or Weidman though.


#5

Looking forward to Bisping/GSP. Admire both, for different reasons. GSP was a class act, an artist, but I love the warrior spirit of Bisping. I think he’d gladly die fighting.

I hope UFC keeps bringing the real contenders together. We don’t want showbiz we want the best fighting the best. Yes, if they can entertain and have mic skills happy days, but the fights come first.

(Fair play to Penn, lot of yoyo-ing weight classes over the years)


#6

I think GSP is making a mistake by coming back. Does anyone here think he was all that impressive in his last fight against Hendricks? Remember what his face looked like? And Hendricks was about GSP’s size. Michael Bisping is 6’ 2" to GSP’s 5’10". He’s bigger stronger and at the top of his game. Why would GSP comeback after not fighting for 3 1/2 years and try to take on the Middle Weight champion (granted there are 5 0r 6 middle weights that would spank Bisping).

Forget the hype. We have a welterweight who has not fought for 3 1/2 years, and was not all that impressive in his last outing taking on the champion in a weight class that is heavier than where he fought his entire career! How many times has it worked out for fighters in either MMA or boxing to jump a weight class. Now ask yourself how many times a fighter has come out of retirement with no tune up fights taken on a fighter in the next weight class up and won?

This has disaster written all over it for GSP. I like GSP and have always enjoyed his fights. He was immensely talented but he is not the same fighter he was. Regardless of the Luke Rockhold KO Bisping is not a knock out artist so GSP could go the distance. But if you recall Chael Sonnon had a difficult time taking Bisping down and when he did he couldn’t keep him down. How is “little” GSP going to do it? Furthermore, how is he going to reach Bisping to strike with him? This is a colossal mistake for GSP

With that said, he will probably make somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 million dollars between his purse and the ppv percent. But, from what I’ve read he is already worth 20 million dollars. Why throw away your legacy for more money? After taxes and expenses that 10 mil (if I am correct and I think I’m close) will be a take home of 4 million. Sure that’s a lot of money but as I said he’s already worth 20 million. Do you chance getting mauled by a larger fighter who is at the top of his game for money?

My prediction is that GSP will lose a 5 round snoozer. There will be some exciting moments but I see him losing every round. And if he makes a mistake…just one mistake he could get KO’d. Whereas Bisping can make a mistake and take GSP’s punches with no problem.

The fight GSP should have made and one that he would have won would be against McGregor. A smaller opponent that he could have taken down and dominated.

Stay in retirement GSP this is a horrible career move.


#7

Well

I do not think GSP is the kind of individual who would do something like this without 100 % certainty that he had the capabilities to pull it off. He has money. Dana White himself has said he doesn’t need to fight ever again he is set for life. But he is a fighter its who he is. Despite Bisping calling him an athlete and not a fighter. Thats just trash talk.

I don’t know if you are aware but Bigg Rigg is not the fighter he once was. Seriously faded a lot. Maybe winning that belt diminished some of the fire that he had. Or perhaps as others have speculated USADA has taken an effect on him. But during the time when he fought GSP he was on fire and damn near unstoppable. I could see Bigg Rigg back then taking it to Bisping now easily.

Chael Sonnen and it pains me to say this is a mediocre fighter with superior marketing skills who was able to position himself to take his fighting career a lot farther then his skill set and merit would have done alone.

Chael has admitted to being bested by GSP in a practice session, he voiced his frustration and letting the smaller man get the better of him. Bisping has stated the same thing and contends that that is reason GSP chose to fight him because he remembers working Bisping in the past and he thinks he can do it again.

BIsping is not 4 four inches taller then him. And GSP has some freaky reach for someone his height. GSP is listed at 76 in and Bisping at 75.5. Who knows if thats true because Bisping is also slated at 6’2 and GSP 5’10 but Bisping definitely isn’t 4 inches taller then GSP. Take a look at the photo. Who knows what their actually stats are but Bisping isn’t towering over him and I don’t think he has what I would consider even close to height or reach advantage.

Regardless you are right he hasn’t fought in a long time. But he’s certainly stayed active. I think he will come back bette then he left. But we will see.


#8

I don’t want to see him stay at middle weight. Those guys are nasty. He should drop to welter weight or light weight if he can. Says he can. I think he can hang with a lot of them but it really isn’t an ideal weight class for him to be in. He could fight Hendricks again before he leave though. That would be amusing.

@gr365

I was shocked when I watched the Machida Penn fight. I thought to myself how is this even possible and who would allow this gross mismatch to happen. Penn was like 5’8 and 191 lbs and totally fat and out of shape to Machida who was 225 and like 6’1. Penn stayed in there for all three rounds. Machida should have bulldozed him. Penn did great things. Unfortunately if you were to look at his record you would not think it. Still glad I got to see him fight while he was still around.


#9

Right, I agree that GSP is better suited to WW frame wise (I’m sure he could eventually make LW, but he would be very “sucked out” and likely lose some of his explosiveness). But, what’s he gonna do? Win the MW title and then immediately vacate it? What’s the point in doing that?

Should he win I see him staying at MW until he either gets beaten, or at least has a few title defenses (Dana and the UFC may try to protect him by giving the smaller less powerful contenders a shot instead of the big boys in the division).

Zeb,

I don’t disagree with being a little shocked that he is coming out of retirement for this fight. I too would like to remember him for his amazing legacy at WW rather than to see him potentially tarnish that and his image by possibly getting mauled by fighters in a bigger weight class.

That said, Randy Couture came out of retirement (having lost to Liddell twice at LHW) to fight Tim Sylvia at HW (who at the time had essentially cleaned out the division) and won. So, such an upset has occurred in the past. Yes, it should be noted that Couture had fought at HW prior to that fight, but still, the example still holds true (since he had retired a LHW).

Like I said, I think of all the MW top contenders Bisping is the one GSP has the best chances of beating. Neither fighter are known for their power, Bisping does not have a huge reach advantage, and as far as comparing GSP to Sonnen they are nothing alike in terms of their overall fighting skills or takedown set-ups.

Sonnen is a flat out pathetic striker, and his submission skills are sub par as well. He basically just dives in for takedowns and only is successful with them because he is relentless, willing to take punishment to get them, and is a good chain wrestler.

GSP on the other hand is (or at least was) masterful at blending his striking and takedown skills (arguably the best ever); always keeping his opponents guessing and utilizing superior timing to get the takedown rather than just pure brute stubbornness.

When you know your opponent has only one threat of attack (takedowns) it is a lot easier to stop them than if you have to constantly worry about multiple potential avenues of attack.

And right you are about Sonnen not being able to hold Bisping down, but again, Sonnen is pretty much just a wrestler who chose to compete in MMA. GSP is a well rounded Mixed Martial Artist and even if he can’t hold Bisping down he may still wind up with The Count’s back and choke him out, or use Bisping’s focus on getting up to land some solid strikes.

I think the interesting thing in this fight will be to see if Bisping can keep GSP off balance and take him down (and if he can what he can do once the fight hits the ground).

Finally, I honestly think GSP had lost his passion for fighting by time he fought Hendricks and so his heart wasn’t really on that fight. Hendricks also was stylistically a much more dangerous opponent for GSP than Bisping (crazy power in both hands, highly decorated wrestler, tough as nails, extremely aggressive, and a fire plug of a build) IMO and styles make fights.

We’ll have to wait and see how it plays out come fight night though I guess.


#10

Oglebee you and Sentoguy make some very good points. But I respectfully disagree with your premise. A larger fighter who has been active is always going to be the favorite over a smaller fighter who has been inactive for 3 1/2 years (unless there is huge skill discrepancy). Staying active is one thing. But, having to fight other high caliber opponents regularly is something else entirely. With that said:

Keep in mind that Chael Sonnen literally beat up Anderson Silva for about 4 1/2 rounds before he was caught in a triangle choke. So all the downplaying of Sonnens skills by you and Sentoguy might be just a tad harsh. And if you recall he also stood and struck with Silva at times doing quite well. I know you both recall at the time they were calling Anderson Silva the greatest martial artist of all time. How could Sonnen dominate him for so long with no skills?

One more point, they don’t talk much about Anderson Silva being the greatest of all time anymore, whether he was or wasn’t is not the point. The point is he fought too long and when Chris Wideman got the better of him twice in commanding fashion Silva’s legacy was damaged forever. My point is he didn’t know when to quit (then again Dana White might have had him locked into something he couldn’t get out of). This is what I fear GSP will do whether he squeaks by Bisping (and I don’t see him doing it), or not. He will continue to fight and he will lose that magic that is only awarded to those very select few fighters in history who choose to go out on top.

But here’s hoping he wins I am a big fan and just hate to see him tarnish his great legacy.


#11

Well, I personally agree with you that Bisping should be considered the favorite in this match-up pretty much for the exact reasons you cited (bigger, no ring rust, used to fighting at MW). I’m just stating that I think stylistically I think GSP has a legitimate chance and that such victories have been pulled off in the past, so it’s not unheard of (but is admittedly rare) and if someone is going to pull it off a fighter of GSP’s caliber has as good a chance as anyone.

Regarding Sonnen, note that I was not suggesting that he was an unskilled fighter; his wrestling fighting skill is World Class. But, let’s be honest, he is a sub par fighter in the areas of striking and submissions and because of that was never able to reach the “top of the mountain”. In other words, he is essentially a one dimensional fighter. Yes, that one dimension is very, very good and allows him to match up well stylistically with certain opponents (like Anderson), but let’s not pretend that makes him better than he is all around.

And again, my point was not to suggest that GSP’s wrestling is necessary better in an absolute sense than Sonnen’s but to point out the discrepancy in how the two fighters utilize and set up their wrestling/takedowns in an MMA context. With Sonnen you usually know the takedown is coming, it’s just that he is skilled and stubborn enough to make it work a fair amount of the time, this also means a lot of expenditure of energy though in many cases. With GSP, you don’t know whether he is going to strike or take you down and he is one of the best ever at using those two skill sets synergistically to set his opponents up for takedowns (he at one time had the highest TD percentage of any fighter in MMA history, though not sure if he still holds that record) making him far more efficient and harder to read.

So, pointing out that Bisping was able to defend some of Sonnen’s TD attempts doesn’t necessarily mean that he would have the same rate of success against GSP’s takedown attempts. That’s all I’m trying to say.


#12

I am a huge Chael fan and was in denial of his mediocre skill set for years. Every dog has his day. That fight was Chaels day and Silva must have been off. His camp certainly claimed he had been nursing bruised or fractured ribs. That might be a fabrication and an excuse. If Chael had been equal in skill he would not have gotten destroyed in the rematch.

If you watch MMA and UFC you would have noticed that nearly every time they bring up Silva or mention him it is typically preceded or followed by " arguably the greatest mma fighter of all time". He is stilled viewed as such by many fans and fighters. I was never one of those guys but my favoritism for American fighters over Brazilians has me slightly biased. I can definitely see the case for the argument now though.

Sonnen really is mediocre man. He barely finagled himself into that title shot. I don’t think he deserved that W over MB he beat a few decent guys who were decent but not amazing. Brian Stann, Yushin Okami. He beat an old way outta prime, luke warm Shogun. The dude’s credentials just are not that impressive.

I only bring up Sonnen because I said he couldn’t even really hold Bisping down so he has takedown defence but as Sentoguy brought up GSP’s MMA wrestling or rather his application of it in conjunction with his standup is far better. As is every single other skill set that he has.

Why would Silva have quit sooner. He was undefeated in so many years and like 17 fight win streak and it didn’t look like his skills were really fading. CW was a up and comer at the time who only had a two fights with I believe top ten ranked guys Munoz and Maia. With a different game plan Silva probably would have KO’ed CW. He let himself get caught. But that’s a different argument for another post. My point is GSP is not in the situation which you are claiming Silva was in which led to him tarnishing his legacy.

I do think there is a huge skill discrepancy between GSP and MB. Regardless I hope they settle in on a date soon because I really want to watch this fight go down and see what GSP has in plan once he has got that MW strap around his waste haha.


#13

He sure does have a legitimate chance, no question. But, if he felt he had to comeback a match with McGregor would have netted him more money and also a victory.

Don’t you think?


#14

I do.

Why he took the Bisping fight instead, who knows? Maybe Dana just offered him a huge pay day? Maybe Conor wouldn’t take that fight? Maybe GSP doesn’t think he can make LW? Who knows?


#15

Well GSP has stated in an interview that one of the reasons he came back was to cement his legacy as the greatest or one of the greatest fighters of all time.

The Bisping fight I think happened because it was the easiest one to set up. At least that is what Dana White said. A cut down to 155 would be really hard but he wouldn’t be the first to make that type of cut. Kenny Florian started as a middle weight and ended as a feather weight. Now they are very different people and I think GSP has a somewhat bigger frame. But your right that GSP vs Mcgregor would be way bigger. I don’t think Mcgregor would want to take that fight.


#16

And when I read things like this I wonder what is going through GSP’s mind? He IS one of the greatest of all time. As if defeating Michael Bisping enhance it much. On the other hand losing to him will certainly tarnish his legacy as I’ve already mentioned.


#17

I love GSP, one of my favorite fighters. That being said, I don’t really care for the matchup.

I think he beats Bisping (history says it’ll be 50-45 UD). If GSP wins at 185 he’ll probably avoid Romero. That’s my main problem with GSP getting an immediate title shot at 185; the division is backed up. Romero and Souza both conceivably deserve title shots.

If he wins at 185 he’ll fight for the 170 strap. I actually think it’s one of the reasons that the UFC was pushing Thompson so hard. I think Woodley gives him the most trouble at 170.That being said; 170 is another division that’s stalling with Maia getting shafted.

Overall I think he wins at 185, avoids the rest of the division to fight at 170, and if he wins the UFC collectively creams their pants when they match up GSP and McGregor who both retire after the highest stakes (and payout) fight of UFC history.


#18

Thats what I am saying man. I think thats there whole angle. Its about big bucks these days. I’ve only ever paid for one PPV though so they can do whatever they want.

By the way on a side note. Someone mentioned fighters coming in bigger packages these days. How crazy is it that 5’6 welter weights were not that uncommon a few years back. Imagine someone like Sean Sherk or Matt Serra fighting anyone in the top ten these days. Haha.


#19

History says? Huh? Maybe I’m not interpreting what you have written correctly so forgive me. But there is no history of a welterweight taking off three and one half years and then coming back without even a tune up fight, moving up to a weight that he has never fought at before and then actually winning the belt…

…And I might add there are plenty of folks like you on this site who think that GSP is some sort of Superman and can pull this off. While I would love to see it as I am a big fan…it’s just not happening.

I wish I lived closer to Vegas…


#20

Perhaps he meant in regards to GSP besting Bisping in training in the past? Definitely not the same thing as an actual fight, but who knows. I remember hearing Rashad say that GSP was able to go tit for tat with him when they trained together. If that is so, then I could easily see him getting the better of Bisping (who is not as big, strong, fast, or skilled as Rashad IMO).