Growth Stimulus Training?

Bigger Stronger Leaner
21

OK, perhaps I’m biased because I used this program for 3 full cycles and a bit (over a period of 4 months). And I readily admit that I’m a beginner and don’t know much about weightlifting, and most of my knowledge is limited to squat and deadlift form and that’s about it.

However, I fail to see how GST is exactly similar and a ripoff of Wendler’s 5/3/1. Yes, it has similarities: they both use % of 1RM and cycles in which the reps decrease and eventually reset. But it has as many differences as it has similarities, if not more.

Plus, I can’t give an objective account of whether GST is superior to 5/3/1 or other programs, and I don’t know why, if you believe this is an exact ripoff of 5/3/1, it’s inferior to it. All I can give is a subjective account of my own lift numbers and a brief background:

3 years ago I did Starting Strength for 5 months, and that ended my weightlifting after I incurred a shoulder injury. Since then and September of 2010, I went about doing the sports I loved: basketball, tennis, skiing, and swimming. From September until December of 2010 I went through p90x, and in January I was about to start GST but had an ankle injury from basketball, so I did some random but consistent upper body workout from mid-January until the end of February and from beginning of March until end of June I did GST.

Here are my numbers (before and after) in 4 months (but due to breaks in between it was more like in 3 months):

Squat: 195
Chin ups: 225
Deadlift: 245
Bench: 165
Overhead Press: 85lb

Squat: 285lb
Chins: 260lb (+100lb BW)
Deads: 375lb
Bench: 215lb
Overhead Press: 125lb

The improvement is pretty good, and I didn’t start off as a complete newb so yes, there’s definitely some newbie gains but it can’t all be attributed to that.

I am now doing a reverse-pyramid training as advocated by Martin Berkhan. I plan on getting back to GST or Wendler’s in 2012. I was pretty happy with GST.

22

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]caveman101 wrote:
sounds like 2020 wellness bumped this year old thread with incorrect info to promote GST[/quote]
Well to be “fair”, or rather, to maintain full disclosure which 2020Wellness should’ve stated in his blatant bump, 2020Wellness is the Ryan dude who seems to have created GST. I’m basing this off the several threads he’s started to pimp his Youtube videos.

So, yeah. There’s that. Also, since this thread has your attention, 2020, I was wondering if you could speak a little more about your claim in the main page video on the GST site. At :13 of the vid, you have the headline, “TESTED BY 1000’S, PROVEN BY ALL.”

You’re saying, with a straight face, that thousands of people have followed your GST program. Thousands. With an S. Thousands? Thousands. Hyperbole for the sake of advertising is one thing. Embellished claims of success are another.

I’m not even going to get into the fact that the “lift” in your “squat, press, lift, pull”-mantra is kinda redundant, or at best, vague. We can probably just chalk that up to poor word choice. It’s hard to avoid that kind of thing when we’re trying to build a better mousetrap.

But to end on a high note, your site’s layout did look pretty sharp. Best of luck with it.[/quote]

Chris,

No problem stating that I’m the creator of GST. I simply believe in not ‘tooting my own horn.’ I actually didn’t even type up those GST:531 comparisons. A long time user of both programs typed them up and they made sense to me. Posting them in this thread was relevant, so I did.

Also, about the thousandS thing, yes. I have personally sold roughly 1000 copies of my GST eBook, which means I’ve also designed roughly 1000 custom programs. I include a personal program design with every eBook, as well as follow up support with the program. So, I can personally vouch for the first 1000 users. Then if you’ll notice the bb.com GST thread, it has roughly 500,000 views and is reaching the 10,000 repy status.

The thread describes the basics of GST, and I know for a fact that there are MANY people who are taking that information and putting together their own basic programs. Couple that with the fact that Micro 0, the intro eBook to GST is free and 1000s pf people have downloaded it from me, and you’ve got a true statement. Micro 0 is found here: growthstimulustraining.com/trial.pdf

Lift is a play off of the deadlift, and it makes complete sense to me. Nobody else who uses the program has had a problem with the terminology, so I’m not worried about it.

Thanks for the compliment on the site, it is just getting started. In the future, you’ll see GST more and more, and since it’s release to the public roughly 2 years ago, it has only received positive feedback, grown in size and sales, and peaked interest from major fitness related companies. I provide a solid program, as well as unbeatable customer service, and a passion for helping people with their training. For those reasons, it is completely realistic that you should believe the ‘thousands’ claim.

Hope to hear your reply,

Ryan

23

well, that was pretty classy.

24

I’m really not trying to get into a huge back and forth on this with you, so I’ll be quick.

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
I simply believe in not ‘tooting my own horn.’[/quote]
I don’t believe this for half a second. A quick look through your post history shows that you’ve pretty much only talked about GST and what it’s done for you. From your cutting thread in Rate My Physique to your bulking journal to your training journal to several different threads for your videos to this old thread bump. You are tooting your own horn, but you’re trying to do it roundabout and under the radar. At least it appears that way.

Ry, if there’s one thing I’ve learned from having the fortune to have ended up in my current gig and talking to the coaches I know, it’s that a fitness pro should be transparent. Be yourself. False modesty doesn’t suit a trainer, since the profession has a hard enough time being taken seriously by the public anyway. So be you, say you’re you, but don’t cross the line into spamming or doing the old “I’ll just leave this here” thing.

If you’ve got quality info to put out there, then put it out there loud and proud with your name right on the front. Hell, if you think it’d fly, look into writing for this site. Waterbury, Nate Green, Romaniello, and myself all went from being schmucks on the forum to being article contributors (while remaining schmucks on the forum, in some cases. :wink: ).

The rest of your post, about the numbers you’re doing and the deadlift thing, that’s fair enough. I did just download the Micro 0 thing to see what’s what. Again, it’s a sharp layout and the ebook is well-designed and easy to read through.

Last bit, then I’m out… it was just a little irksome that you not only bumped this old, dead thread just because someone was criticising your program, but you didn’t even (publicly, at least) address the dude in the first post who had a question with your program in the first place. Just a funny thing, that.

25

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

Last bit, then I’m out… it was just a little irksome that you not only bumped this old, dead thread just because someone was criticising your program, but you didn’t even (publicly, at least) address the dude in the first post who had a question with your program in the first place. Just a funny thing, that.[/quote]

I disagree with your observation. People commented that his program is a ripoff of 5/3/1. Just like myself, he disagreed with that statement but just because he did it a while after the original post doesn’t mean he was looking to bump the thread. Perhaps he just saw it then and had missed it previously. Why do we have to assume it was done so with malicious intent?

And a quick google of “2020Wellness” will quickly reveal that he’s the guy behind GST. I don’t think he’s trying to hide it.

Anyways, I’m not the dude behind GST but I did it and it was very happy with it – I already posted my numbers – and I’m going back to it in 2012.

26

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
I’m really not trying to get into a huge back and forth on this with you, so I’ll be quick.

[quote]2020Wellness wrote:
I simply believe in not ‘tooting my own horn.’[/quote]
I don’t believe this for half a second. A quick look through your post history shows that you’ve pretty much only talked about GST and what it’s done for you. From your cutting thread in Rate My Physique to your bulking journal to your training journal to several different threads for your videos to this old thread bump. You are tooting your own horn, but you’re trying to do it roundabout and under the radar. At least it appears that way.

Ry, if there’s one thing I’ve learned from having the fortune to have ended up in my current gig and talking to the coaches I know, it’s that a fitness pro should be transparent. Be yourself. False modesty doesn’t suit a trainer, since the profession has a hard enough time being taken seriously by the public anyway. So be you, say you’re you, but don’t cross the line into spamming or doing the old “I’ll just leave this here” thing.

If you’ve got quality info to put out there, then put it out there loud and proud with your name right on the front. Hell, if you think it’d fly, look into writing for this site. Waterbury, Nate Green, Romaniello, and myself all went from being schmucks on the forum to being article contributors (while remaining schmucks on the forum, in some cases. :wink: ).

The rest of your post, about the numbers you’re doing and the deadlift thing, that’s fair enough. I did just download the Micro 0 thing to see what’s what. Again, it’s a sharp layout and the ebook is well-designed and easy to read through.

Last bit, then I’m out… it was just a little irksome that you not only bumped this old, dead thread just because someone was criticising your program, but you didn’t even (publicly, at least) address the dude in the first post who had a question with your program in the first place. Just a funny thing, that.[/quote]

Thanks for the tips Chris, appreciated.

As far as not answering the original poster, he is an eBook reader so I’ve designed a program for him and helped him in private already. He’s definitely been taken care of.

Thanks again,

Ryan

27

[quote]sepandee wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

Last bit, then I’m out… it was just a little irksome that you not only bumped this old, dead thread just because someone was criticising your program, but you didn’t even (publicly, at least) address the dude in the first post who had a question with your program in the first place. Just a funny thing, that.[/quote]

I disagree with your observation. People commented that his program is a ripoff of 5/3/1. Just like myself, he disagreed with that statement but just because he did it a while after the original post doesn’t mean he was looking to bump the thread. Perhaps he just saw it then and had missed it previously. Why do we have to assume it was done so with malicious intent?

And a quick google of “2020Wellness” will quickly reveal that he’s the guy behind GST. I don’t think he’s trying to hide it.

Anyways, I’m not the dude behind GST but I did it and it was very happy with it – I already posted my numbers – and I’m going back to it in 2012.[/quote]

Thanks man. It’s not a surprise that the people who’ve done the program in this thread have good things to say about it. Going after a program that you haven’t even done is like reviewing a car’s ride and performing without actually driving it. I appreciate the input Sep.

Ryan

28

*531 places virtually zero emphasis on supplemental exercises. The trainee is left to use any rep scheme that they want with no requirements.
GST supplementary exercises rotate through regimented rep schemes that are emphasized within the program as vastly important.

Appearently you did NOT read Wendler’s 5/3/1 otherwise you would know about “boring but big” or the triumperate (mispelled). Both of which focus in on supplemental exercises ! How about a little more homework before
the bashing begins ;0 !

29

dirk!! this one was dead already dammit >=(

30

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
*531 places virtually zero emphasis on supplemental exercises. The trainee is left to use any rep scheme that they want with no requirements.
GST supplementary exercises rotate through regimented rep schemes that are emphasized within the program as vastly important.

Appearently you did NOT read Wendler’s 5/3/1 otherwise you would know about “boring but big” or the triumperate (mispelled). Both of which focus in on supplemental exercises ! How about a little more homework before
the bashing begins ;0 ![/quote]

Oh the hidden irony.

31

apologies to ALL !

32

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
apologies to ALL ![/quote]

I forgive you killer.

33

thanks Chris. I did not want to come off as an ass as I so often do. I DO appreciate when people such as your self or Wendler put out very practical programs. I only want to see proper credit given, as I am sure you would on your program without it being highjacked.

thanks again…dirk

34

[quote]killerDIRK wrote:
thanks Chris. I did not want to come off as an ass as I so often do. I DO appreciate when people such as your self or Wendler put out very practical programs. I only want to see proper credit given, as I am sure you would on your program without it being highjacked.

thanks again…dirk[/quote]

Who is Chris?

35

Well this argument is easy. Who is Ryan Miller and who is Jim Wendler? In other words, who has the better credentials?

36

[quote]sandos wrote:
Well this argument is easy. Who is Ryan Miller and who is Jim Wendler? In other words, who has the better credentials?[/quote]

Geez, thanks for reviving an old thread.

True, Jim Wendler is the man, but that argument does not by itself discredit what someone else has to offer. If that was the case, then most people in the world could never have their arguments accepted simply because someone else has better credentials than them.

I’m not suggesting that most people in fact have a valid argument or case or lessons to present, but some do, and their argument should be accepted or rejected based on its own merit (in addition to any comparison with other arguments that may be necessary).

37

[quote]sandos wrote:
Well this argument is easy. Who is Ryan Miller and who is Jim Wendler? In other words, who has the better credentials?[/quote]

I can tell you that my career is centered around training people locally, nationally, and internationally. I am the head trainer at multiple gyms, as well as own and operate my own training studio/business.

I have one successful book at the moment, with version 2.0 of that book the works as well. I also have another book that I’m working on right now which is centered around my approach to nutrition.

My job is training, and I choose this career path because it is my number one true passion. Nobody is dissatisfied with the experience I provide for them, be it through working with me personally, online, or through reading the words I write in my books. If people were dissatisfied, my business would not support my family.

As far as paper credentials go, I have a degree in Biochemistry and received my training certification through the National Academy of Sports Medicine.

38

[quote]sandos wrote:
Well this argument is easy. Who is Ryan Miller and who is Jim Wendler? In other words, who has the better credentials?[/quote]

I’m actually not sure where Wendler came from though… GST and 531 are not related, nor am I in a contest with Wendler.

39

[quote]sepandee wrote:

[quote]sandos wrote:
Well this argument is easy. Who is Ryan Miller and who is Jim Wendler? In other words, who has the better credentials?[/quote]

Geez, thanks for reviving an old thread.

True, Jim Wendler is the man, but that argument does not by itself discredit what someone else has to offer. If that was the case, then most people in the world could never have their arguments accepted simply because someone else has better credentials than them.

I’m not suggesting that most people in fact have a valid argument or case or lessons to present, but some do, and their argument should be accepted or rejected based on its own merit (in addition to any comparison with other arguments that may be necessary).[/quote]

Funny how you haven’t posted for months and suddenly show up to defend GST at the same time as 2020Wellnes.

40

[quote]ryno76 wrote:

[quote]sepandee wrote:

[quote]sandos wrote:
Well this argument is easy. Who is Ryan Miller and who is Jim Wendler? In other words, who has the better credentials?[/quote]

Geez, thanks for reviving an old thread.

True, Jim Wendler is the man, but that argument does not by itself discredit what someone else has to offer. If that was the case, then most people in the world could never have their arguments accepted simply because someone else has better credentials than them.

I’m not suggesting that most people in fact have a valid argument or case or lessons to present, but some do, and their argument should be accepted or rejected based on its own merit (in addition to any comparison with other arguments that may be necessary).[/quote]

Funny how you haven’t posted for months and suddenly show up to defend GST at the same time as 2020Wellnes.

[/quote]

I know I get email notifications on my threads, so I’m guessing Sepand did as well.

What’s more funny is how you have a vendetta against me without knowing me.