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Growing PAINS- Damn it Burns!

running a sus and dbol stack
sus every 4th day and 50mg of d-bol e.d.
Week3 going into week4

The shoulder joints are on fire, lower back is on fire. When sitting slightly slouched for about sixty second here comes the pain. Doing chest and shoulder workouts are grueling. Having to stretch every exercise. Nevertheless, at week3 - 202lbs w/ 10%bf from starting at 187lbs. WOW!!

Any input???

[quote]NYCMonster wrote:
Any input???
[/quote]

Yeah. The fact that your chest and shoulder workouts are more grueling than your back and leg workouts should say something.

I bet your endocrine system loves the roller coaster ride.

Are you getting muscle pumps or actual joint pain?

Muscle pumps can be dealt with by lowering the dbol dose a bit and adding some taurine. Some people get lower back and calf pumps no matter what though.

Also the injection frequency of T blends should be dictated by the shortest ester. But since you gained 15 pounds I’m sure you think that you’re doing something right. I also think that creating more stable blood levels of testosterone will help alleviate the problem somewhat. Most of the weight you’ve gained is water weight.

[quote]NYCMonster wrote:
running a sus and dbol stack
sus every 4th day and 50mg of d-bol e.d.
Week3 going into week4

The shoulder joints are on fire, lower back is on fire. When sitting slightly slouched for about sixty second here comes the pain. Doing chest and shoulder workouts are grueling. Having to stretch every exercise. Nevertheless, at week3 - 202lbs w/ 10%bf from starting at 187lbs. WOW!!

Any input???

[/quote]

As others have also asked are you implying muscle pain [I think you are with low back] or actual bone/joint pain [shoulder]. As Bones217 recommended the dbol could very likely be contributing the your extreme ‘pumps’. At your size/weight you could probably drop to 30mg and still see good results with less pain. And/or try the taurine. In fact maybe even try the taurine first and if you dont get relief then reduce dbol dosing. Start with a gram or two. If taurine is gonna work 2 grams should likely be adequate. If it doesnt help you can try 3-4 grams. If that does work need to either reduce dosing the dbol or live with it.

Also as aforementioned Sus is much better as an EOD

Bonez and saps gave great advice. I don’t have a great deal to add, but I do need 3-5g of taurine to notice a significant decline in dbol back pumps, so clearly YMMV.

If the joint pains are due to connective tissue issues, you might want to change your rep range a bit. If you’re consistently hitting new PRs in everything, and doing 3-4 reps in your heaviest set, it might well be too much for your tendons.

Keep working hard and eating like crazy. As Bonez pointed out, most of those gains are likely water; it’s what you’re able to gain beyond that initial increase in weight that ultimately proves to be most significant.

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[quote]NYCMonster wrote:
Doing chest and shoulder workouts are grueling. Having to stretch every exercise.[/quote]

You should probably be doing that anyway. I stretch between every set, especially when I’m doing benchpress, deads, or squats. Ripping a pec, hurting my back, or straining a hamstring are fears of mine. Better safe than sorry. I’ve heard too many stories of people having lifelong issues that are the result of improper stretching or warmups.

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[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Perhaps we should have a chat about stretching, lol.

Static stretching, especially during or pre-training, is IMO a bad idea, as it tends to reduce power production and possibly strength.

Whilst I totally appreciate the value of a good warmup, stretching does not form part of a cogniscent warmup routine IMO.

Basically, a few dynamic (not ballistic) exercises to improve synovial joint function and prime the CNS are what are needed.

If you need to stretch during training on a regular basis, then it is my opinion that you have left your stretching/flexibility issues until too late. That shit should be taken care of at other times.

BBB[/quote]

Whoa, news to me. When, then, is the best time to take of that shit? Before going to the gym? It’s not that I stretch in between sets because I have to, I’m just paranoid about getting an injury that will keep me out of the gym for months at a time. Even when I dislocated my shoulder that kept me out of the gym for a very long time, and now years later it still isn’t quite the way it was before. The thought of ripping a tendon or something gives me nightmares.

[quote]BL4DE wrote:
bushidobadboy wrote:
Perhaps we should have a chat about stretching, lol.

Static stretching, especially during or pre-training, is IMO a bad idea, as it tends to reduce power production and possibly strength.

Whilst I totally appreciate the value of a good warmup, stretching does not form part of a cogniscent warmup routine IMO.

Basically, a few dynamic (not ballistic) exercises to improve synovial joint function and prime the CNS are what are needed.

If you need to stretch during training on a regular basis, then it is my opinion that you have left your stretching/flexibility issues until too late. That shit should be taken care of at other times.

BBB[/quote]

Whoa, news to me. When, then, is the best time to take care of that shit? Before going to the gym? It’s not that I stretch in between sets because I have to, I’m just paranoid about getting an injury that will keep me out of the gym for months at a time. Even when I dislocated my shoulder that kept me out of the gym for a very long time, and now years later it still isn’t quite the way it was before. The thought of ripping a tendon or something gives me nightmares.[/quote]

Jinx!

Uhhh, lol. Wtf?

Lol, I’m guessing you got two accounts there, bud?

Someone owes someone a coke.

off topic but fyi

static stretches DOES NOT reduce strenght, and may decrease power output by 5%. but i do agree not the best warmup.

warmup - look up Movement Prep

[quote]Detroitlionsbaby wrote:
Lol, I’m guessing you got two accounts there, bud?[/quote]

Not quite. Greg is my paranoid friend who refuses to post on AAS boards from his own computer.

Anyway, that post was made by me obviously.

[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
BL4DE wrote:
NYCMonster wrote:
Doing chest and shoulder workouts are grueling. Having to stretch every exercise.

You should probably be doing that anyway. I stretch between every set, especially when I’m doing benchpress, deads, or squats. Ripping a pec, hurting my back, or straining a hamstring are fears of mine. Better safe than sorry. I’ve heard too many stories of people having lifelong issues that are the result of improper stretching or warmups.

Perhaps we should have a chat about stretching, lol.

Static stretching, especially during or pre-training, is IMO a bad idea, as it tends to reduce power production and possibly strength.

Whilst I totally appreciate the value of a good warmup, stretching does not form part of a cogniscent warmup routine IMO.

Basically, a few dynamic (not ballistic) exercises to improve synovial joint function and prime the CNS are what are needed.

If you need to stretch during training on a regular basis, then it is my opinion that you have left your stretching/flexibility issues until too late. That shit should be taken care of at other times.

BBB[/quote]
Wonderful post Bushy. Count not have said it better myself. I agree with everything 100%

off-topic

Dynamic stretching before training, static (or rather, PNF stretching) after training.

To be honest, my strength day warmups are nothing but cardio to get my heart rate going (though most of my training is conditioining anyway). Stretching warmup i do first thing in the morning before breakfast as soon as i wakeup. Half an hour or dynamic stretching to engage/lubricate all joints in my body, including side leg raises and back leg raises. This is done 6 days a week so that my muscles/joints are warmed up enough for ANY training that i might do that day/night without having to spend too much time warming up.

Any other stretching is done after a workout - which mainly consists of PNF stretching.

For more information, consult the book, Stretching Scientifically by Thomas Kurz:

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